The NUMBER ONE THING ANY SHOW can do to improve itself is tightening up. That doesn't necessarily mean getting shorter -- though it almost always happens, as a by-product -- but it DOES mean cutting out the filler. The average reader / listener / viewer is there for the main course, and has very little time to waste on non-core experience.
Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone. But it probably applies to you.
Yes, you.
Dan Mosqueda
· 2 years ago
Chris,
Spot-on. I have the same complaints about specialty TV shows/movies (i.e. Christian movies). Cheap, unthoughtful production values is really insulting to the viewer and detracts from the message or entertainment. Good advice - producers need to focus on quality, even if it's "just for the web."
The Goat
· 2 years ago
AMEN!
That's what I'M saying...
anji bee
· 2 years ago
glad to see someone else believe in editing. i've always been one to clip out "ums" and other extraneous nonsense, or even record the whole thing from scratch if i must. some podcasters seem to think that every little utterance is golden and should never be altered. more my music podcast, particularly, i prefer it to be polished and sharp, like a diamond, if you will... oh wait, i forgot the plug: the chillcast with anji bee, yes, that's the silky little 1/2 hour weekly chillout music podcast in question!
now my vidcast, that's another beast, entirely. i try to let my hair down and remain "natural" -- as natural as one can be knowing full well they are being recorded for mass consumption -- but i always take care to make sure i've got my light set up so you can see my elastic, emotive, expressions. i surprise myself by how many odd faces i make while i talk...
anyway, i gotta go grab a cuppa joe. nice talking to ya chris.
UJ
· 2 years ago
I absolutely disagree! You, as the audience, don't have any say at all. To paraphrase the Simpsons, they give you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. If anything, YOU owe THEM!
Look at the people that have been most successful in your field and ask yourself if they did it by kowtowing to the audience. Unless you're planning on sinking an ocean liner or hitting her baby one more time, F*CK the audience.
I agree with you, Chris. I am quick to unsubscribe to podcasts that meander and/or waste my time. Sitting in front of the mic in their studios, podcasters sometimes FORGET about the audience and their needs. The answer, in my humble opinion, is to PLAN your show, THINK while you record, and then EDIT ruthlessly.
Christopher S. Penn
· 2 years ago
Show prep is absolutely essential. All you need is a text editor and the willingness to sift through what's relevant.
Here's a suggestion: listen to your show every day. Even if you don't publish every day, listen to your show every day (or watch it). If there are parts that cease to be useful/entertaining/amusing by the second or third time through, that's a good place to start tightening.
Also, ALWAYS put administrative stuff at the end of the show - the prattle about where you'll be and the weather (unless you're a weather Podcast) etc. Put the good stuff up front, and shift the lighter stuff to the back. If I have time to listen, I'll take the whole thing, but if I am pressed for time, I want the goods first.
David Kowarsky
· 2 years ago
The Eyes... THE EYES! I will have nightmares now...
HE... IS... BROGANCOP!
Ed Roberts
· 2 years ago
I certainly agree with the need for people to "tighten" up their show. If you sound amature, your audience is going to treat you as such, and retention of new listeners will be very difficult. If you can not say that YOU would listen to your show, then there is something wrong.
However, I don't want people to think this means you need to cut out the human part of your show. There needs to be some perspective when it comes to "tightening" things up. THE biggest part of new media is relationship and community. If you are doing your podcast with pure information in mind, the audience has nothing to connect to on a personal level. Successful podcasts have both great content and the ability to connect to draw their listeners in to themselves. If you script yourself to the point of being merely a conduit for information, you'll have the audience retention of a sieve in the sand.
So yes, tighten up your podcast and make them sound more professional. Organize and improve constantly. Be confident in what you say, yet be friendly and human.
UJ, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think your perspective is more regarding blogs, not podcasts. Podcasts by their nature are more intimate and personal. Anyone can skim a blog post or an article in a magazine. A podcast is in your ear... someone talking to you. By that very nature the relationship the host has with their audience is critical.
Big TC
· 2 years ago
Chris,
First and foremost, I am gonna have nightmares with that green faced, red eyed version of you!
More importantly, great post. While I have not yet made a podcast, I listen to a few that do it right. I think when one first does it, there is bound to be a learning curve and some novice mistakes but by planning and asking your Community, you will hopefully avoid some common blunders.
I know I will ask CC Chapman for his guidance when my time comes.
As always, thank YOU for being a part of my community!
UJ
· 2 years ago
Ed, I don't think so. I think what makes podcasts, blogs or any "new media" different from the traditional is just a figment of our imagination. I think we, those of us having this discussion, would like to see ourselves as being somehow different, but ultimately we're all jumping onto the same data bandwagon as papyrus and UHF, albeit with different entry barriers.
A podcast on the train is no more intimate than the t-shirt on the guy sitting across from you. The only difference is you made a choice on the podcast and not the guy's t-shirt.
If you made a bad choice of podcast, or your podcaster is somehow not meeting your standards, pick a different podcast. Don't expect the podcast you like to change to meet your expectations.
If the audio is not good enough, or the guy says "um" a lot, chances are you'd ignore that if the content was good enough. For example, I haven't seen a Super Bowl in years, but I'm pissed when I miss a Chris and Jeff webcast. Tell me which one has more preparation, more production value, and more design for the audience.
If none of us can find that perfect podcast, I'd say thats more of a challenge than a flaw we should hold current podcasters accountable for.
New Media isn't different because it's intimate or displayable on a different machine, it's different because anyone can compete. If I don't like certain aspects of a Hollywood movie, I can't do anything about it. Nor can I do anything about terrible radio or terrible magazines.
But I can do something about terrible podcasts. And so can you. And my guess is it isn't telling other people how they're doing it wrong.
Whitney
· 2 years ago
The hidden gift of twitter for me has been forced brevity. I want to use this to tighten up the audio and show notes- strip it down to the essentials as much as possible; be more ruthless at cutting out asides as need be.
Mark Forman
· 2 years ago
Whoo, Chris sharpened the knife on this one. All good points and agreed. Shortening not a bad thing, general consensus: many options to choose from, so make it count. I always try to think in terms of person listening, and don't want to waste their time.
The Goat
· 2 years ago
Big difference between kowtowing to the audience and making a reasonable effort not to fucking suck, in my humble opinion.
Or, to put it another way, go ahead and make any kind of low-production, meandering piece of crap you want to. The world is your oyster. Really. More power to you. Just don't expect me to waste time on it.
You don't care? You're choice. It's cool. Sometimes the hack stuff has a certain charm. Personally, I find that it wears off pretty quickly. That's just me.
The Goat
· 2 years ago
Also, the point was made that one big difference about new media is that anyone can compete. "Compete" implies "standards". For example, someone hits a successful formula and gets a big audience and suddenly the bar is raised a little bit for everyone else who is interested in the same success.
If you don't care about the size of your audience, then read the disclaimer Chris posted above and rock on with your bad self. I was in band like that for years. It's great fun. You end up with a relatively small but loyal following and you get to do things your way.
One final thing to consider: if you're a big fan of podcasts and an engaged, enthusiastic listener, then why NOT tell the podcaster what you'd like to see done differently on their show? New media productions come with the added benefit of instant feedback and conversation between involved parties. Why not use it?
Ultimately everyone will decide for themselves how involved and responsive they are on both sides of the transaction. The debate is basically academic.
UJ
· 2 years ago
Goat, I don't see how making something meandering and awful is the only alternative to making sure your audience is happy.
The world of podcasting revolves around the podcaster, not the downloader. Nothing about that denotes low quality or not trying hard enough or having a small audience.
Again, if that was the case, Titanic is the single greatest film of all time ever. And all other films, by your given standards, are horrible pieces of shit not worth your time. If that metaphor is too much of a stretch, how come lonelygirl15 has more viewers than Amy Goodman? Or Chris Pirillo? Or you?
I enjoyed your post on NIN's Year Zero. It's true that the audience wanted all of those community bells and whistles, and TR supplied, but here's the difference: TR didn't change the album, or the songs. He gave it to people and let them change it, post it, do whatever. That's audience participation, for sure, but it's completely separate from his actual album, his podcast, if you will.
My point about not listening to the audience follows roughly similar to Wiki founder Chris Wale's comments on not building a community around the worst behavior. I think some of people's worst behavior is selfishness! "Why doesn't this podcast sound the way I want it to? Why doesn't the lighting look how I want it to look?" Audience participation can be called something else, too: mob rule. Once you open that door, there is no closing it. See: Digg. Or Poochie.
I'm all for community participation (clearly!) and taking suggestions and such but I stop short of considering it a "job" to do. I'm sorry but the podcast is the job, not polling the viewers at home.
There is no job AS a new media artisan. The job IS a new media artisan. Improving and exploring the quality is part of that. So is having and interacting with an audience. But when you start to confuse those things, you've lost it.
chrisbrogan
· 2 years ago
UJ - but the original post, the point of this from my perspective, is to say that you should produce the best possible work you can muster. I didn't say, "ask you audience what they want more of." (though I'm guilty of doing that all the time. Answer: do what you're doing. They always say that).
The point is: make a great product. CONSIDER that there's an audience. I promise you, Trent Reznor wants people to dig his shit. He doesn't ask them if they prefer more cowbell, but he wants them grooving on it.
I don't mention polls or anything of the sort.
Create from your vision, but consider the target. That is, should you want a big-ass honkin audience of devotees.
Rob Brogan
· 2 years ago
While I podcast for fun which leaves me out of Chris Brogan's requests, I try to put all that I can into it. My fellow podcasters and I have listened to plenty of other shows similar to the stuff we try to make and learn from the good and bad.
While many have said to "tighten the show" and often a shorter length results... for those who may not know how to tighten up their stuff, I would suggest starting with the opposite. Setting a time restraint forces you to get out the good stuff fast. Since I'm the only editor, video material rolls out slowly, but when we DO record a show that's video, we try to keep it at 10 minutes. If there's tons of info we let it roll, or break it into parts. It helped us keep on track though.
Same thing with audio, although from my experience I have several long podcasts that I will listen to in segments on my own. So brevity isn't as important, but I try to not let it breach the one hour mark. (Of course we have a list of things we are going to cover and in what order.)
Just a few more specific things I thought I'd contribute since it seems the comments are getting a bit abstract about the role of podcaster to audience.
Make it interesting and don't make anyone hit the fast forward button. (I've cut down on intro music because of that habit of mine.)
OH! If you know what the next episode will be about, brief the listener to grab them for a sequential episode.
Attitude
· 2 years ago
People who choose to become their potential will always find an audience.
Jonathan Bloom
· 2 years ago
Great post Chris, this is exactly what VON has taught me. When I went to VON my podcast was more of a hobby. I did it because it was fun to do and wanted to show people my talent.
Well, at VON all of the speakers like: Jeff Pulver, Chris Brogan (what an awful mean guy! :P), Jeff Jarvis, Robert Scoble, etc were telling me in their speeches that content is king! Content is what makes a podcast fun! Make your content good enough, the audience will want to watch it.
I have now taken that aspect into consideration. ever since I got back in March. I've changed from a hobbyist to doing this for a career. I am scripting way more and getting rid of the parts people don't want to watch.
So I agree with your post that the audience matters!
The Goat
· 2 years ago
UJ, I'm not saying it's an either/or scenario. Just because it's not what I like doesn't mean it's not good or doesn't hold some intrinsic value separate from production quality, obviously. All I'm saying is that if you just hit record on your camera and start blathering, then I'm not interested. Someone else might be and that's peachy.
Personally, were I a podcaster or videoblogger, I would want to produce the kind of stuff I, myself, would want to watch. Quality in terms of content AND production, measured relative to the "best" or "most successful" in my space or pool of inspiration.
Dave LaMorte
· 2 years ago
My podcast needs a make over.
Steve Lubetkin
· 2 years ago
I've been arguing for a couple of years now that podcasters need to stop thinking that what they do is "live radio." It's a recording. You can (and should) edit a recording. Those of us who cut our 'casting teeth in college radio learned early on that listeners have no interest in the inside jokes, behind the mic stuff that they can't see. No one cares if you are hearing echo in your headphone. Stop recording long enough to correct the problem, but don't let them even know you had one!
Jeaux Janovsky
· 2 years ago
Hey Chris! I really enjoyed reading yr thoughts, very honest and thought provoking. And Special thanks for shouting out Tim, ACBO, PS, and N3!!! As a small part of PS, it means a lot that you dig it, and will hopefully continue to do so. I also work on Indy Mogul and Channel Frederator, 2 other great reasons for you to check out more of what N3 has to offer! Thanks again! -Jeaux Janovsky
Tim
· 2 years ago
Good advice, Chris. Very flattered you called us out as an example -- believe me, we make the mistakes you mention here all the time, and constant reminders are necessary. There was a great presentation by Kent Nichols and Doug Sarine from Ask a Ninja at Pixelodeon where they gave advice to other video makers, and two of the best bullet points were, "Edit out all the boring stuff" and, "Kill all of your babies." It's a hyper-competitive space on the internet, and even your friends have a million other things they can read and watch. Online video has to be leaner, meaner, and faster than anything that's come before it: we're the small mammals fighting it out on the ground while the dinosaurs perish. Adapt or die...
All Comments
Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone. But it probably applies to you.
Yes, you.
Spot-on. I have the same complaints about specialty TV shows/movies (i.e. Christian movies). Cheap, unthoughtful production values is really insulting to the viewer and detracts from the message or entertainment. Good advice - producers need to focus on quality, even if it's "just for the web."
That's what I'M saying...
now my vidcast, that's another beast, entirely. i try to let my hair down and remain "natural" -- as natural as one can be knowing full well they are being recorded for mass consumption -- but i always take care to make sure i've got my light set up so you can see my elastic, emotive, expressions. i surprise myself by how many odd faces i make while i talk...
anyway, i gotta go grab a cuppa joe. nice talking to ya chris.
Look at the people that have been most successful in your field and ask yourself if they did it by kowtowing to the audience. Unless you're planning on sinking an ocean liner or hitting her baby one more time, F*CK the audience.
I read ChrisBrogan.com because its ChrisBrogan.com, not because its Chris Brogan Pleases UJ All The Time.com.
Here's a suggestion: listen to your show every day. Even if you don't publish every day, listen to your show every day (or watch it). If there are parts that cease to be useful/entertaining/amusing by the second or third time through, that's a good place to start tightening.
Also, ALWAYS put administrative stuff at the end of the show - the prattle about where you'll be and the weather (unless you're a weather Podcast) etc. Put the good stuff up front, and shift the lighter stuff to the back. If I have time to listen, I'll take the whole thing, but if I am pressed for time, I want the goods first.
HE... IS... BROGANCOP!
However, I don't want people to think this means you need to cut out the human part of your show. There needs to be some perspective when it comes to "tightening" things up. THE biggest part of new media is relationship and community. If you are doing your podcast with pure information in mind, the audience has nothing to connect to on a personal level. Successful podcasts have both great content and the ability to connect to draw their listeners in to themselves. If you script yourself to the point of being merely a conduit for information, you'll have the audience retention of a sieve in the sand.
So yes, tighten up your podcast and make them sound more professional. Organize and improve constantly. Be confident in what you say, yet be friendly and human.
UJ, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think your perspective is more regarding blogs, not podcasts. Podcasts by their nature are more intimate and personal. Anyone can skim a blog post or an article in a magazine. A podcast is in your ear... someone talking to you. By that very nature the relationship the host has with their audience is critical.
First and foremost, I am gonna have nightmares with that green faced, red eyed version of you!
More importantly, great post. While I have not yet made a podcast, I listen to a few that do it right. I think when one first does it, there is bound to be a learning curve and some novice mistakes but by planning and asking your Community, you will hopefully avoid some common blunders.
I know I will ask CC Chapman for his guidance when my time comes.
As always, thank YOU for being a part of my community!
A podcast on the train is no more intimate than the t-shirt on the guy sitting across from you. The only difference is you made a choice on the podcast and not the guy's t-shirt.
If you made a bad choice of podcast, or your podcaster is somehow not meeting your standards, pick a different podcast. Don't expect the podcast you like to change to meet your expectations.
If the audio is not good enough, or the guy says "um" a lot, chances are you'd ignore that if the content was good enough. For example, I haven't seen a Super Bowl in years, but I'm pissed when I miss a Chris and Jeff webcast. Tell me which one has more preparation, more production value, and more design for the audience.
If none of us can find that perfect podcast, I'd say thats more of a challenge than a flaw we should hold current podcasters accountable for.
New Media isn't different because it's intimate or displayable on a different machine, it's different because anyone can compete. If I don't like certain aspects of a Hollywood movie, I can't do anything about it. Nor can I do anything about terrible radio or terrible magazines.
But I can do something about terrible podcasts. And so can you. And my guess is it isn't telling other people how they're doing it wrong.
Or, to put it another way, go ahead and make any kind of low-production, meandering piece of crap you want to. The world is your oyster. Really. More power to you. Just don't expect me to waste time on it.
You don't care? You're choice. It's cool. Sometimes the hack stuff has a certain charm. Personally, I find that it wears off pretty quickly. That's just me.
If you don't care about the size of your audience, then read the disclaimer Chris posted above and rock on with your bad self. I was in band like that for years. It's great fun. You end up with a relatively small but loyal following and you get to do things your way.
One final thing to consider: if you're a big fan of podcasts and an engaged, enthusiastic listener, then why NOT tell the podcaster what you'd like to see done differently on their show? New media productions come with the added benefit of instant feedback and conversation between involved parties. Why not use it?
Ultimately everyone will decide for themselves how involved and responsive they are on both sides of the transaction. The debate is basically academic.
The world of podcasting revolves around the podcaster, not the downloader. Nothing about that denotes low quality or not trying hard enough or having a small audience.
Again, if that was the case, Titanic is the single greatest film of all time ever. And all other films, by your given standards, are horrible pieces of shit not worth your time. If that metaphor is too much of a stretch, how come lonelygirl15 has more viewers than Amy Goodman? Or Chris Pirillo? Or you?
I enjoyed your post on NIN's Year Zero. It's true that the audience wanted all of those community bells and whistles, and TR supplied, but here's the difference: TR didn't change the album, or the songs. He gave it to people and let them change it, post it, do whatever. That's audience participation, for sure, but it's completely separate from his actual album, his podcast, if you will.
My point about not listening to the audience follows roughly similar to Wiki founder Chris Wale's comments on not building a community around the worst behavior. I think some of people's worst behavior is selfishness! "Why doesn't this podcast sound the way I want it to? Why doesn't the lighting look how I want it to look?" Audience participation can be called something else, too: mob rule. Once you open that door, there is no closing it. See: Digg. Or Poochie.
I'm all for community participation (clearly!) and taking suggestions and such but I stop short of considering it a "job" to do. I'm sorry but the podcast is the job, not polling the viewers at home.
There is no job AS a new media artisan. The job IS a new media artisan. Improving and exploring the quality is part of that. So is having and interacting with an audience. But when you start to confuse those things, you've lost it.
The point is: make a great product. CONSIDER that there's an audience. I promise you, Trent Reznor wants people to dig his shit. He doesn't ask them if they prefer more cowbell, but he wants them grooving on it.
I don't mention polls or anything of the sort.
Create from your vision, but consider the target. That is, should you want a big-ass honkin audience of devotees.
While many have said to "tighten the show" and often a shorter length results... for those who may not know how to tighten up their stuff, I would suggest starting with the opposite. Setting a time restraint forces you to get out the good stuff fast. Since I'm the only editor, video material rolls out slowly, but when we DO record a show that's video, we try to keep it at 10 minutes. If there's tons of info we let it roll, or break it into parts. It helped us keep on track though.
Same thing with audio, although from my experience I have several long podcasts that I will listen to in segments on my own. So brevity isn't as important, but I try to not let it breach the one hour mark. (Of course we have a list of things we are going to cover and in what order.)
Just a few more specific things I thought I'd contribute since it seems the comments are getting a bit abstract about the role of podcaster to audience.
Make it interesting and don't make anyone hit the fast forward button. (I've cut down on intro music because of that habit of mine.)
OH! If you know what the next episode will be about, brief the listener to grab them for a sequential episode.
Well, at VON all of the speakers like: Jeff Pulver, Chris Brogan (what an awful mean guy! :P), Jeff Jarvis, Robert Scoble, etc were telling me in their speeches that content is king! Content is what makes a podcast fun! Make your content good enough, the audience will want to watch it.
I have now taken that aspect into consideration. ever since I got back in March. I've changed from a hobbyist to doing this for a career. I am scripting way more and getting rid of the parts people don't want to watch.
So I agree with your post that the audience matters!
Personally, were I a podcaster or videoblogger, I would want to produce the kind of stuff I, myself, would want to watch. Quality in terms of content AND production, measured relative to the "best" or "most successful" in my space or pool of inspiration.
I really enjoyed reading yr thoughts, very honest and thought provoking. And Special thanks for shouting out Tim, ACBO, PS, and N3!!! As a small part of PS, it means a lot that you dig it, and will hopefully continue to do so.
I also work on Indy Mogul and Channel Frederator, 2 other great reasons for you to check out more of what N3 has to offer!
Thanks again!
-Jeaux Janovsky