Chris Brogan: Workflow- Social Media School Teacher
vivian vasquez
· 1 year ago
Hi Chris, I think you should come to PodcampEDU2 and do a talk on your message here...lots of teachers and student teachers are coming this year so these are the folks in the field you'd be talking with...
See you there?
Luke
· 1 year ago
Nice read.
Your daughter is savvy, but perhaps the issue is and will be with the teachers and how they keep up.
I heard of a university lecturer who received an assignment recently on a USB stick. He didn't have a clue what it was. He taught media.
Beth
· 1 year ago
The only way this would make sense is if you reversed the role of the teacher and the students - kids already know how to use these technologies. It's the teachers who need educating.
Meg
· 1 year ago
Read the whole concept with interest, wondering how the costs of smartphones and cameras and good computers and connections would compare with traditional costs, and how that could be made to happen. Corporate sponsorships? Hmmm.
Second thought was, could Mom and Dad help with your homework without a serious learning curve of their own? Kids adapt quickly, but adults sometimes need a bit of time. Hopefully they'd make the effort.
Third thought was, how do you protect kids/content from others online who might interfere?
Fourth thought was, how do you standardize what they're learning so they all leave with a similar foundation of knowledge and skils? Is there testing in this model?
Fifth thought was, this could be a model that encourages quieter kids to get involved because it's there's less pressure on individual achievement, and more on collaboration. Not that you want to lose that striving for excellence on your own...
When I directed the camp, we gave every cabin a video camera to record a wrap up of their week to show at our last night's "film festival". And I swear, you have no idea what kids are capable of until you put tools in their hands and just let them GO.
Really intriguing, Chris.
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
Beth- you're not wrong. Interesting idea, and by the way, I'd fully support a class where my kids taught the teacher media. Because then, what would come next might be the context that would turn my child's skills into something useful instead of islands in a stream.
Vivian - when is it?
Luke- aieee.
Richie Escovedo
· 1 year ago
Chris - you paint a very hopeful and progressive future for education. For parents I recommend reading Marc Prensky's "DON'T BOTHER ME, MOM -- I'M LEARNING" : How Computer and Video Games Are Preparing Your Kids For Twenty-first Century Success -- and How You Can Help!
In it Prensky refers to the youth as digital natives and the older generations as digital immigrants which is a very telling way to express the differences in comfort-levels with technology.
I work in education (Communication/PR) and would love to see SM integration in and beyond the classroom.
Great conversation starter as always.
Cherisa B
· 1 year ago
Chris, I think it's right on and a good workplan for grade school computer teachers. The only issue I have is you've got the kids all with cellphones in 3rd grade - that's 8 years old or so. My experience is kids have them about age 10 or 12 - 5th or 6th grade. Dharmesh would need a little more equipment, but he's doing a great job for the kids. Imagine their future where they are this savvy this young.
Aaron
· 1 year ago
Having spend some time in primary schools, i'd say you're a little off. A couple of things concern me about this. First, and it's a concern about social media in general, is that there is the temptation to get caught up in the technology/tools and miss the actual content. Reading, writing and math skills should never be replaced by posting a video on youtube, adding a group on Ning, or proving that you can do a google search .. .while these are nice things to know, being able to properly construct written arguments and commentary on in a book review builds skills that are far more important than being able to produce a properly leveled podcast. Especially at the early age you're talking about here.
Secondly the picture you've painted of the teacher is not going to happen at least with our current batch of teachers.
It still amazes me how many teachers, even the young ones, know little beyond Word. This is simply a discipline that values the content and the why over the technological how.
While social media tools may have a place in the school they need to remain just that, Tools. They need to add value, add a skill set, and increase the level of education of the students. There needs to be a reason for it beyond that it's the next cool thing.
Shakespeare and quadratic equations will serve kids better than facebook ever will.
Mihaela V
· 1 year ago
Aside from digital divide issues, and the things the previous comments point out, what is the value in teaching skills for skills sake?
Yes, social media can be a very useful tool in teaching, and I use various tools a lot in my college courses (see, for example, http://prprofmv.wordpress.com). But a lot of thinking needs to be done before we recommend implementing the idea in this blog post with younger kids.
They need to learn how to think first, and they need to learn how to learn. By the time they grow up, YouTube might be a piece of history, and so might be social media. They need to develop the brain power to learn new tools on their own and to make decisions about using these tools appropriately in various cultural contexts.
I am a social media enthusiast myself, but I need to keep reminding myself that it's a tool - just like the telephone.
Education can and should take advantage of tools, but it shouldn't be focused on them.
Dr Wright
· 1 year ago
It makes totaly sense. The reason why more teachers do not do this is because they do not know how. Children today are in a digital world, to have them in schools pushing pencil to paper as the only means of getting work done is wrong. It's slow and does not fit with the rest of their world. That is why they get bored.
I know teachers who do not own computers at home and cant follow email. It's scary out there.
It's not just because teachers don't know how. Even in a very afluent country like Sweden where I work, schools just don't have massive resources for IT. I've gone into to lecturer at top senior high schools and the best you can hope for is one computer in a classroom and one or two projectors per school.
There are some schools that give a laptop to each student but these are often gimmicks to recruit new "customers."
For new media to influence teachers, resources need to be upped. Significantly!
She's doing some interesting things with technology in the classroom. Helps that it's at a private academy.
Spence
· 1 year ago
Wish it was like this, but as has been said, think it would be the students teaching the teachers, enjoyed the last two articles though, when are we going to see "Workflow - Chris Brogan" :)
Steve
· 1 year ago
Hi Chris,
I actually think the school community can really benefit from using social media to share and support each other, as well as the obvious benefits for the students growing in such a classroom 2.0 (sorry for horrible use of that lingo - but it does work).
Check this out - http://www.edna.edu.au/edna/go/me - it's a social teachers network which allows teachers to share lesson plans, teaching resources etc etc. It's quite popular here in Australia, and is pretty well trafficked.
What do you think?
abbashaiderali
· 1 year ago
I think this is fantastic. Works great both ways if the students can teach the educators something as well. The benefits would be much higher if this sort of application of socially enabled technology was institutionalized rather than just one teacher at a time. Imagine what the kids will face if they move on to the next Grade and realize that the tools that were part of their every day classroom activities are no longer present, or in some cases not even allowed?
As an outrageous counter example, my wife works for a school system in MD where HAVING a Facebook account is grounds for firing (it's a topic covered in their new employee training). It doesn't matter if it's set to friends-only profile viewing and obviously no students in your friends list, you just can't have one. She was just starting to get exposure to Ning, Qik and other cool apps, but with her board being techno-phobic, she has no incentive to share that excitement with her students. A real shame.
Abbas.
frank
· 1 year ago
Great post and incredible comments! People seem to have a lot to say about this one.
My take on it all is that traditional teaching and learning is never going to go away and, as many have said, we can't replace things like math or writing with social media tools.
But ... What we have to keep doing is pushing or moving ahead.
Integration of social media tools is a great idea and needs to be 'integrated' into what teachers are doing in the classroom - not put in place of.
Unfortunately, many districts block access to most social media sites, including YouTube, fearing lost productivity and inappropriate content. Perhaps if I forward them this post they'll reconsider!
Dave
· 1 year ago
The example is appealing not because of the technology but because Daresh is a good teacher: he's planning ahead, he's thinking about improving his class while he's not there, he gives students strong and fun homework opportunities, he changes the classes structure/location to keep it interesting, etc.
I love all of our new online technology tools, but the key is still having good teachers. Good teachers will always seek out good strategies and tools and use them in innovative ways.
If you force any tool (including web, social networking, etc) on teachers, you'll spend all of your time supporting the teachers who aren't interested enough in it to explore on their own. If you offer the tool and provide strong optional training and support, then the teachers who want to incorporate it in the classroom will do so in amazing ways, and the other teachers' classrooms won't be disrupted.
Bob H
· 1 year ago
Chris, This is an awesome idea. I wonder if there is anything like this in our area? When I was in school, I learned more from these types of projects than from books. Thanks for the ispiration! -Bob
Meryl Steinberg (twitter meryl
· 1 year ago
I'm focusing on how to work with non-profits to bridge the digital divide (Cocotalks: Connect, Collaborate for Effective Community Action) Thankfully, the kids in this school are have access to the digital & social media world at home and are blessed with a teacher taking initiative. I read about U.S. corporations investing in education in other countries, but not our own. They have global, not national interests. A total revamp of NCLB is required and funding is critical. Change will have to be driven from the ground up. It will come from Teachers groups, PTAs, Principal organizations -- and, yes, a new government leadership caring more about Luella Jones & Barney Smith than Smith Barney.
adam christensen
· 1 year ago
Chris - nice little theoretical example. I hope my comments are taken in stride. I really liked Aaron's comments above.
I just dropped off my kids for their first day of school this morning (Kindergarten and 1st grade), so this is very top of mind for me. I'll be frank here. As someone who is very involved in social media in my every day life, I'd be really annoyed if my kids' teachers were trying to push them into online collaboration this heavily. Why? Because in the real world this would be a distraction to what really needs to happen: learning the basics. It's not that benefits can't be had from better collaboration and sharing. But at an elementary school age, I don't need teachers pushing my kids to more technology. I want them to learn more how to read better from books, how to solve real math problems, etc., etc.
Teachers don't really need to spend a lot of time teaching kids how to use social media. That will come naturally as they grow up. What's most important in the 3rd grade is that they learn basics. And social tools just don't teach kids how to read, write, add, subtract etc.
What I guess I'm getting at is that in the real world, I fear that if a teacher were to try to be this ambitious, it would just end up as a distraction to what students really need to learn.
We who are close to this web 2.0 world sometimes drink our own kool aid too much and think that social media holds the keys to all the world's problems. While there are likely some benefits that could be had from employing it in elementary education, I wouldn't want my kids distracted by it. I think the better benefits to social media in education is for teachers to collaborate with eachother...
Now, if you put your example in the high school/college level, I think I'd have a completely different feeling about all of this.
Ok, sorry for my tangent. I know it was simply a thought provoking example. And it clearly worked!
At any rate, thanks for posting and
Meryl Steinberg (twitter meryl
· 1 year ago
Adam, your concerns about kids not getting the basics are well founded. SocMedia and technology are tools. Chris is, after all, introducing this important topic IN social media context. The drop out rate in urban areas is climbing off the charts. U of WI psyc ed department is doing work with epistemic games that teach kids how to think like engineers, games help educate about nutrition, bullying. Todays NetGen needs to be taught the basics, differently.
Alanna
· 1 year ago
I don't see the "there" there - exactly what knowledge are these kids learning? Tools and skills, but they are in 3rd grade. What about long division?
Robert Rowe
· 1 year ago
Wow! After the social-media post yesterday (I commented asking for an education-related one), this is perfect! As a K-12 music teacher, my thoughts: 1. A district that prohibits (instead of teaching online etiquette) social media needs to wake up. Just sayin'. 2. Something like "adjusting the levels in Audacity" is akin to perfecting your handwriting. It's a necessary skill, but the content is the reading of your report (which is probably already typed/written and peer-reviewed). 3. Most students (middle school and up) already own cellphones, as do many teachers. I love how you included the Flip option for those that don't! I love the conversation, though. Thanks!
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
Putting out an idea like mine does wonders for getting smart people like you to voice your concerns and give me some sensible ideas for what's next.
You've said that most teachers can't operate computers beyond Microsoft Word. You've said that most schools can't afford this technology. You reminded me that 3rd graders probably won't have smart phones just yet (I worked in wireless telephony before getting into social media, and they high growth rate of kids and phones in the US was 10, so I'm a bit later).
I think the basics can be taught alongside the neato. But should kids read through picture books and watch old VHS tapes about nature, or should they go out and curate their own material, by snapping pictures, and then using the web with their teachers to find more info.
Further, learning how to think, how to analyze, how to parse, how to discern, and several other structures are becoming more and more important to our children. Some level of rote memorization will still matter, but I'm wondering when the shift to search instead of storing information in our heads will be the norm.
It's not that I'm trying to be an unrealistic futurist. It's not that I think the physical world is bad. I love crayons. I love construction paper projects.
But if we don't think about it, and if we don't dream of how it will come about, it won't. And my child, I promise you, will be very well versed in how these new technologies build communication, community, and collaboration.
Thanks for your ideas. Keep them coming. Debate them. Blog your own variations on the them. That's the point. : )
Cherisa B
· 1 year ago
Chris, more great points, which brings up cognitive requirements for learning in an environment and world where there is so much competing for attention. Social media causes disruptive continuously. I'll be trying to read a blog, get pinged for a chat, and get an alert from Twitterfox. How to we get back on track to focus our attention (where was it, anyway)? You might consider an article on teaching or knowing how to manage data and sensory overload from multiple channels and sources. Our children have a new world that we as parents and teachers have to prepare them for. Blocking Facebook or not teaching them how to use RSS feeds is the least of it.
mamikaze
· 1 year ago
wow! that is awesome. It is nice to see a teacher in touch with the modern world. I bet it keeps the kids interested. But 3rd graders with camera phones! not happening here.
Lamarr Wilson
· 1 year ago
I could agree with Beth more. I'm a former teacher and now I train teachers on edutech in the classroom. The biggest problem is not the kids; it's the teachers. Getting them to try something new is like pulling off your toenail (don't try it by the way, it's all icky and stuff).
Kid's aren't too young to learn this stuff, although I'm not sure I would have an 8 year old on Friendfeed or other services like that. Social media is fine, but I would contain the social component internally.
Thanks for the article; it was inspirational and I have some ideas now.
Brent P. Newhall
· 1 year ago
As others have posted, it's a neat idea, but it seems to focus on teaching these third-graders how to use social media, not how to write or do math. Social media is a fantastic discussion medium--and would be great for, say, English readings and analysis--but I don't see the value-added when teachers already struggle to teach basic math and science.
Plus, I volunteer with third through sixth graders. None of them have cellphones, even non-smartpones. Their parents specifically will not allow them to have cellphones until at least middle school.
I worry about these kids' privacy, too, especially if they're using all these online services. They're going to fill out a lot of profiles. And, at least in the U.S., these sites should be following COPPA rules, which greatly increases the amount of time to register an account for a child (the parent must physically mail or fax a permission letter to the service; how many will do so?).
I also worry about a child predator realizing that all of Kaitlin's schedules, videos, writings, etc. are online.
All that said, it'd be great to see more social media acceptance among teachers. Set up a forum for discussing Silas Marner. Post videos of important lectures so kids can see them at home if they're sick or need to review.
Amanda
· 1 year ago
A lot of great comments about an interesting concept. I've worked in some highly technical schools where the third-grade kids were doing work similar to this in their tech class. The other classes were all wired up, but few of the teachers knew how to work the technology or it was redundant to their subject. There is a space for technology in schools, but schools don't have to or need to become fully tech as in this post. Although our world is more wired, there are also more people in it and people skills are still as important as tech skills.
Denise
· 1 year ago
Chris, thanks for another great article to get us thinking.
Brent, you bring up some valid points. I worry that too much focus on technology in school will hurt the teaching of basics, but I also know that a good teacher can integrate learning and tech to provide some great experiences.
The other issue to consider is the tech divide. How many schools or individual kids have the tools to be able to use all of the social media?
Ann Kingman
· 1 year ago
I've got a few, mostly disjointed, thoughts -- coming from the parent of a 1st grader and a 4th grader.
- This needs to involve the parents, which is as big (if not bigger) a stumbling block than teachers. This summer I was trying to figure out how to encourage my 9 y.o. to read more. I set up a private Goodreads group for kids to post about what they were reading, in the hopes of encouraging others to find books they liked. We also set up places for parents to write about their books, to show kids that reading is not just for kids. I and a few other mothers reached out invited 9 entire classrooms (via email) in K-4th grade.
We had a total of 5 families sign up. Lack of activity (kids just don't read that fast)sunk the project.
The interesting point, though, was that I didn't have to "teach" my kids how to use Goodreads. I showed them once how to post a review, and they took it from there. They've been playing on Webkinz for 2 years now -- it's intuitive. Because of that, if we can figure out how to use the social media angle to directly relate to the fundamentals like multiplication and division, it can make it more fun and enjoyable.
My kids have learned their times tables from listening to old episodes of Schoolhouse Rock on their ipods. How about a Youtube project of a class performing the songs? The rehearsal and planning alone would drill those multiplication tables in their heads before they even realized they were learning.
evano
· 1 year ago
This is a wonderful, thought-provoking piece, Chris. I used to teach high school, but I left because the it became too draining to continually struggle with colleagues and an administration who thought long-term planning meant "next period", and that if a kid could mark a good pattern of bubbles on a scantron sheet their job was successful. Of course, now I work as a developer of corporate training where I've discovered that inertia is univeral.
So, some of the reactions here sound a lot like those of my former colleagues and bosses and current clients and bosses. I'm not sure what those commenters mean when they say that Chris is somehow misguided in his story because social media is "just a tool" and that the kids need to "learn how to learn" or learn long division or other aspects of the three Rs... What do you think they are doing in Chris's scenario?
* They're writing blog posts, reading other students' posts, peer-reviewing posts, and analyzing the posts they're reading closely enough to add suggestions and corrections. * They're using the Internet as a library to research topics, then they evaluate the results returned as videos, and post them for the class to see and use. * The audio reports they've turned in for review are book reports, and I'm guessing that they are writing the reports before reading them and are likely graded on their thesis and its presentation. * They've collected "information" in a prior unspecified assignment -- by searching, reading, interviewing, whatever -- and are collaboratively analyzing different methods of presenting their info to achieve a desired effect. * They're outside collecting images and I'm guessing they're going to be asked to use those images to create a narrative, perhaps individually or in groups.
About the only thing I don't see here is a bunch of students struggling with long division, when they know that they can type the equation in Google's search bar or the calculator on their phone for the answer. And if you think that these kids are missing out on some thinking or math skills because they're not mechanically scratching out answers with pencil and paper, then you've never seen them learn to calculate a trajectory arc in a Sponge Bob game, evaluate the quickest route through an obstacle course to gather the maximum number of energy points possible, or learn by failing and losing and trying a different avenue to a solution.
It doesn't look like learning because the kids aren't sitting in nice neat rows, producing identical copies of information which bore them and bore the teacher who's done this same thing over and over with different kids, and it teaches the kids that learning is drudgery, experimentation is discouraged, and education is something that you only do in school.
This is a potential, blue-sky, best-of-all-possible-worlds scenario (well, except for the budget problems) and it is something we need to aim for. Our schools are failing because kids are not going to accept the importance of educational ideas which are rooted in the societal needs of the 19th & 20th centuries. As someone above pointed out, they are the "digital natives", and they are not going to take seriously explanations of how their world works from a bunch of newbies, kthxbai.
Richard Reeve
· 1 year ago
None of the tools discussed have a complexity that makes training teachers difficult, but the enculturating of the medium is a different issue. I wish more educators would be comfortable with the students teaching each other, and the teachers for that matter, user methodology. While proficiency with the tools is important, because of the ever changing nature of the medium, students should be encouraged to tackle new user tools, to simply plunge into the different interfaces, to embrace the additude that I can figurw this out. (If the next generation of tools do not continue to grow in the area of user "ease", I do not think they will survive in the market).
Concerns about safety should be addressed. Do any of the software companies consider allowing schools to use their tools in secure micro-environments so cultural proficiency need not be undermined by predators?
Laura Hecht
· 1 year ago
Bravo Chris! The technological advances we welcome in the classroom are merely vehicles to authentic learning. We as teachers must engage students where they are at. Students live in an age of technology. Our goal as educators and adults alike is to teach them the critical thinking skills they need to navigate the web. Students gain more ownership in their learning in the mediums discussed in your post. I'm on board with this type of classroom. Where do I sign up?
Laura
Justin Levy
· 1 year ago
All I can think of is playing Oregon Trail on a slow, old Mac when I was in 3rd grade! :)
It does amaze me how much kids at a younger age know about computers and the internet. I don't think that this concept is that far off from a reality in some schools, or at least the near future reality. Everything that you described is easily accessible now but most of it isn't be used for these purposes. I also think we're more likely to see this type of thing in a college environment right now.
-Justin Levy
James
· 1 year ago
What about reading and writing? Is there not a need for balance? Whilst it is exciting that the children can quickly assimilate these new tools and are conveying their new learning through audio and video they might also be leapfrogging the essential skill of literacy (apologies for being a grump)
Collin
· 1 year ago
Chris --
The post & comments here are so inspiring, so BIG-picture that I think this is something that transcends chrisbrogan.com in such a positive way.
Sure there are hurdles to anything this forward-thinking, but I for one have spent a good portion of my day just imagining the possibilities of a classroom that embraces new media in this manner... and I'm not even a teacher!
Ari Herzog
· 1 year ago
Evano brought up the idea of students submitting oral presentations via YouTube or some other A/V medium in addition to a written document.
I like this concept... but not so much for the elementary students. More for the high schoolers who will be using BlackBoard and other online technologies in college, whether bricks-and-mortar or 100% online like Capella University.
Or, what about a family of four who go on vacation and the two kids, each of whom are in school, co-create a video or a series of blog posts, filmed/written on-location, and can both receive credit for an online interactive "show and tell" experience?
Going one step further, I remember being in middle or high school when the space shuttle went up and 2-way conversations were aired on live TV in class. How about taking that best practice example and use it for the kids on vacation, speaking to their peers from wherever and interviewing locals in real-time. Call it citizen journalism for 5th graders.
Hmm?
Max Forlani
· 1 year ago
Hi,
really loved this article! As a teacher, and as a web technology lover, I wish my school would introduce a course like that. I'd be happy to sign in and teach these kind of courses.
Cheers, Max
Michael Bailey
· 1 year ago
Oh it will all happen, just not this year. Those 3rd graders will grow up with all of this being "just the way you do it" and soon enough some of them will be teachers themselves.
While many of us here can see all of the flora and fauna, nature trails, waterfalls, and other pretty sites of the social media forest, to outsiders it is just a big clump of trees. It will still take a few years before the mainstream people will become curious enough to venture inside.
Oh, and on the downside?
Unfortunately, none of the elements in your story will ever be on the 6 o'clock news. Why? Well, intelligence is not news worthy - but a dog on a skateboard? Oh yea, that will sell some ad spots. Sad truths.
Buzzoodle Ron
· 1 year ago
Hmmm, everyone is so happy on this one.
I think it is very valuable to learn audacity and some of the tools you mention, but there are more important things not being taught that are more fundamental.
1. Speaking - Why record an audio. Being a good speaker is more important and takes much more skill.
2. Personal Finance - Before you learn YouTube, maybe you should have weekly Quickbooks mock transactions to enter and write about. (Dull, I know. But important)
3. Efficiency - Maybe we should give each kid a budget and they can hire a virtual assistant or buy new software or have a custom app designed to simplify their lives. Now that is a great skill to have.
I think it would take a teacher a lot longer to grade audio files than writing. If they are going to go to the effort, why not just have them do oral presentations. The kid could include media in the presentation, such as playing an audio interview they conducted asking other people what they thought of the book. (If you really want to include audio)
Do not get me wrong. I am not a nay-sayer. My first company was built to advance technology in education. I just do not think that social media will become the main platform. Maybe Kindle, with lots of interactive features where people can collaborate and share will.
Kelly
· 1 year ago
Chris,
This was a fascinating and provocative post, with amazing comments furthering the discussion. Wow!
I'm going to agree with Adam. My daughter just entered 4th grade this week, and I want her to get her schooling in the disconnected world. Being hyper-connected swallows kids up soon enough.
As a learning experience, I don't see it. Kids of this age don't yet have the breadth of experience or the maturity to "curate their own material." Without reading the books and seeing the work of others, how are they to do this curating?
With all the equipment, I was reading this as a high school or college class. By high school kids can do some great stuff. They'll have picked up the skills outside of school, which is fine.
Remember when we weren't allowed to use calculators in grade school because we wouldn't learn the math with a tool in the way? Learning how to use the tools doesn't teach you the principles behind them, nor how to maximize your use of them.
Budgetary and teacher-training issues aside, I would love to see this come to pass—but for kids who've had a few more years of real-world learning under their belt first.
Regards,
Kelly
Patrick John O'Mahony, Sr
· 1 year ago
Proof:
The problem with Web 2.0 and all that Audio.
"Dharmesh lets their discuss the benefits of a blog versus just adding a group to Ning."
Many commenters disagreeing with the classroom scenario Chris offers state that a future like this will not work because the students are not learning fundamentals like reading and writing. Yet most of these same commenters didn't read carefully enough or critically enough to see that the children are turning in BOOK REPORTS in audio format, and are WRITING BLOG ENTRIES, among other assignments and activities not fully fleshed out in this essay. Missing critical details like that in their reading doesn't argue very strongly for the superiority of current and past educational paradigms.
And, the less said about nitpickers who see typos as "proof" for dismissing the entire point of the article, the better.
But let me give you a hint, Mr. Pedant: the author of this article is not a product of an educational paradigm such as the one he describes. Therefore, if your typo is proof of the "problem" with an educational system, it is proof of the one currently in place, and the one that produced everyone reading and commenting on this thread.
LisaN
· 1 year ago
I used to tutor twin boys from the grades of 5th-9th. When they entered the 8th grade, I moved from the East Coast to the West Coast. The boys mother was very disappointed and was not looking forward to finding another tutor. So, we started tutoring via webcam. We also used a wiki platform for essay papers, and we used Zoho for document editing and collaboration.
Technology offers so many avenues with regards to education, it's overwhelming.
As a teacher, I don't discount any idea that could provide a way to get students interested and excited about their classwork.
If a teacher stops learning, so will their students.
Nikki Pilkington
· 1 year ago
Another fantastic post Chris - wouldn't it be great to see all schools adopting this model in the next few years?
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
@Pat - thanks for the fix. : )
Dan
· 1 year ago
What a brilliant article. I teach interactive media at college and this year we are just beginning to record lectures for our students to download and listen again later. But also to require/allow students to submit podcasts in place of some written work. I will share your article with my colleagues. Thank you so much.
Pete
· 1 year ago
Oh, this was fiction, wasn't it?
I doubt that in a classroom of 3rd graders every student would have an RSS reader.
Actually, I doubt that in a classroom of college students every student would have an RSS reader.
Ari Herzog
· 1 year ago
Oh, but Pete, college students already have RSS readers but they are called "going to classes and taking notes the instructor dictates."
Imagine if each lecture of notes is distributed to students by RSS which they receive in a school- or subject-based feed; and then through videos or word processing, responses can be crafted for sharing and grading.
TownDeeds
· 1 year ago
As a technophobe what you write scares the life out of me and makes me wonder for my childrens sanity - however all of it will become a reality, I'm sure my son will be checking his class schedule on his iPhone soon, he's 7! We won't have children, we'll have cyborgs ;)
All Comments
I think you should come to PodcampEDU2 and do a talk on your message here...lots of teachers and student teachers are coming this year so these are the folks in the field you'd be talking with...
See you there?
Your daughter is savvy, but perhaps the issue is and will be with the teachers and how they keep up.
I heard of a university lecturer who received an assignment recently on a USB stick. He didn't have a clue what it was. He taught media.
Second thought was, could Mom and Dad help with your homework without a serious learning curve of their own? Kids adapt quickly, but adults sometimes need a bit of time. Hopefully they'd make the effort.
Third thought was, how do you protect kids/content from others online who might interfere?
Fourth thought was, how do you standardize what they're learning so they all leave with a similar foundation of knowledge and skils? Is there testing in this model?
Fifth thought was, this could be a model that encourages quieter kids to get involved because it's there's less pressure on individual achievement, and more on collaboration. Not that you want to lose that striving for excellence on your own...
When I directed the camp, we gave every cabin a video camera to record a wrap up of their week to show at our last night's "film festival". And I swear, you have no idea what kids are capable of until you put tools in their hands and just let them GO.
Really intriguing, Chris.
Vivian - when is it?
Luke- aieee.
In it Prensky refers to the youth as digital natives and the older generations as digital immigrants which is a very telling way to express the differences in comfort-levels with technology.
I work in education (Communication/PR) and would love to see SM integration in and beyond the classroom.
Great conversation starter as always.
First, and it's a concern about social media in general, is that there is the temptation to get caught up in the technology/tools and miss the actual content. Reading, writing and math skills should never be replaced by posting a video on youtube, adding a group on Ning, or proving that you can do a google search .. .while these are nice things to know, being able to properly construct written arguments and commentary on in a book review builds skills that are far more important than being able to produce a properly leveled podcast. Especially at the early age you're
talking about here.
Secondly the picture you've painted of the teacher is not going to happen at least with our current batch of teachers.
It still amazes me how many teachers, even the young ones, know little beyond Word. This is simply a discipline that values the content and the why over the technological how.
While social media tools may have a place in the school they need to remain just that, Tools. They need to add value, add a skill set, and increase the level of education of the students. There needs to be a reason for it beyond that it's the next cool thing.
Shakespeare and quadratic equations will serve kids better than facebook ever will.
Yes, social media can be a very useful tool in teaching, and I use various tools a lot in my college courses (see, for example, http://prprofmv.wordpress.com). But a lot of thinking needs to be done before we recommend implementing the idea in this blog post with younger kids.
They need to learn how to think first, and they need to learn how to learn. By the time they grow up, YouTube might be a piece of history, and so might be social media. They need to develop the brain power to learn new tools on their own and to make decisions about using these tools appropriately in various cultural contexts.
I am a social media enthusiast myself, but I need to keep reminding myself that it's a tool - just like the telephone.
Education can and should take advantage of tools, but it shouldn't be focused on them.
I know teachers who do not own computers at home and cant follow email. It's scary out there.
Good for him, keep it up!!
Dr. Wright
The Wright Place TV Show
www.wrightplacetv.com
www.twitter.com/drwright1
There are some schools that give a laptop to each student but these are often gimmicks to recruit new "customers."
For new media to influence teachers, resources need to be upped. Significantly!
http://falconms.typepad.com/fatech/
She's doing some interesting things with technology in the classroom. Helps that it's at a private academy.
I actually think the school community can really benefit from using social media to share and support each other, as well as the obvious benefits for the students growing in such a classroom 2.0 (sorry for horrible use of that lingo - but it does work).
Check this out - http://www.edna.edu.au/edna/go/me - it's a social teachers network which allows teachers to share lesson plans, teaching resources etc etc. It's quite popular here in Australia, and is pretty well trafficked.
What do you think?
As an outrageous counter example, my wife works for a school system in MD where HAVING a Facebook account is grounds for firing (it's a topic covered in their new employee training). It doesn't matter if it's set to friends-only profile viewing and obviously no students in your friends list, you just can't have one. She was just starting to get exposure to Ning, Qik and other cool apps, but with her board being techno-phobic, she has no incentive to share that excitement with her students. A real shame.
Abbas.
My take on it all is that traditional teaching and learning is never going to go away and, as many have said, we can't replace things like math or writing with social media tools.
But ... What we have to keep doing is pushing or moving ahead.
Integration of social media tools is a great idea and needs to be 'integrated' into what teachers are doing in the classroom - not put in place of.
__
http://twitter.com/franswaa
just dropping by http://huamobi.com
I love all of our new online technology tools, but the key is still having good teachers. Good teachers will always seek out good strategies and tools and use them in innovative ways.
If you force any tool (including web, social networking, etc) on teachers, you'll spend all of your time supporting the teachers who aren't interested enough in it to explore on their own. If you offer the tool and provide strong optional training and support, then the teachers who want to incorporate it in the classroom will do so in amazing ways, and the other teachers' classrooms won't be disrupted.
This is an awesome idea. I wonder if there is anything like this in our area? When I was in school, I learned more from these types of projects than from books. Thanks for the ispiration!
-Bob
I just dropped off my kids for their first day of school this morning (Kindergarten and 1st grade), so this is very top of mind for me. I'll be frank here. As someone who is very involved in social media in my every day life, I'd be really annoyed if my kids' teachers were trying to push them into online collaboration this heavily. Why? Because in the real world this would be a distraction to what really needs to happen: learning the basics. It's not that benefits can't be had from better collaboration and sharing. But at an elementary school age, I don't need teachers pushing my kids to more technology. I want them to learn more how to read better from books, how to solve real math problems, etc., etc.
Teachers don't really need to spend a lot of time teaching kids how to use social media. That will come naturally as they grow up. What's most important in the 3rd grade is that they learn basics. And social tools just don't teach kids how to read, write, add, subtract etc.
What I guess I'm getting at is that in the real world, I fear that if a teacher were to try to be this ambitious, it would just end up as a distraction to what students really need to learn.
We who are close to this web 2.0 world sometimes drink our own kool aid too much and think that social media holds the keys to all the world's problems. While there are likely some benefits that could be had from employing it in elementary education, I wouldn't want my kids distracted by it. I think the better benefits to social media in education is for teachers to collaborate with eachother...
Now, if you put your example in the high school/college level, I think I'd have a completely different feeling about all of this.
Ok, sorry for my tangent. I know it was simply a thought provoking example. And it clearly worked!
At any rate, thanks for posting and
1. A district that prohibits (instead of teaching online etiquette) social media needs to wake up. Just sayin'.
2. Something like "adjusting the levels in Audacity" is akin to perfecting your handwriting. It's a necessary skill, but the content is the reading of your report (which is probably already typed/written and peer-reviewed).
3. Most students (middle school and up) already own cellphones, as do many teachers. I love how you included the Flip option for those that don't!
I love the conversation, though. Thanks!
You've said that most teachers can't operate computers beyond Microsoft Word. You've said that most schools can't afford this technology. You reminded me that 3rd graders probably won't have smart phones just yet (I worked in wireless telephony before getting into social media, and they high growth rate of kids and phones in the US was 10, so I'm a bit later).
I think the basics can be taught alongside the neato. But should kids read through picture books and watch old VHS tapes about nature, or should they go out and curate their own material, by snapping pictures, and then using the web with their teachers to find more info.
Further, learning how to think, how to analyze, how to parse, how to discern, and several other structures are becoming more and more important to our children. Some level of rote memorization will still matter, but I'm wondering when the shift to search instead of storing information in our heads will be the norm.
It's not that I'm trying to be an unrealistic futurist. It's not that I think the physical world is bad. I love crayons. I love construction paper projects.
But if we don't think about it, and if we don't dream of how it will come about, it won't. And my child, I promise you, will be very well versed in how these new technologies build communication, community, and collaboration.
Thanks for your ideas. Keep them coming. Debate them. Blog your own variations on the them. That's the point. : )
Kid's aren't too young to learn this stuff, although I'm not sure I would have an 8 year old on Friendfeed or other services like that. Social media is fine, but I would contain the social component internally.
Thanks for the article; it was inspirational and I have some ideas now.
Plus, I volunteer with third through sixth graders. None of them have cellphones, even non-smartpones. Their parents specifically will not allow them to have cellphones until at least middle school.
I worry about these kids' privacy, too, especially if they're using all these online services. They're going to fill out a lot of profiles. And, at least in the U.S., these sites should be following COPPA rules, which greatly increases the amount of time to register an account for a child (the parent must physically mail or fax a permission letter to the service; how many will do so?).
I also worry about a child predator realizing that all of Kaitlin's schedules, videos, writings, etc. are online.
All that said, it'd be great to see more social media acceptance among teachers. Set up a forum for discussing Silas Marner. Post videos of important lectures so kids can see them at home if they're sick or need to review.
Brent, you bring up some valid points. I worry that too much focus on technology in school will hurt the teaching of basics, but I also know that a good teacher can integrate learning and tech to provide some great experiences.
The other issue to consider is the tech divide. How many schools or individual kids have the tools to be able to use all of the social media?
- This needs to involve the parents, which is as big (if not bigger) a stumbling block than teachers. This summer I was trying to figure out how to encourage my 9 y.o. to read more. I set up a private Goodreads group for kids to post about what they were reading, in the hopes of encouraging others to find books they liked. We also set up places for parents to write about their books, to show kids that reading is not just for kids. I and a few other mothers reached out invited 9 entire classrooms (via email) in K-4th grade.
We had a total of 5 families sign up. Lack of activity (kids just don't read that fast)sunk the project.
The interesting point, though, was that I didn't have to "teach" my kids how to use Goodreads. I showed them once how to post a review, and they took it from there. They've been playing on Webkinz for 2 years now -- it's intuitive. Because of that, if we can figure out how to use the social media angle to directly relate to the fundamentals like multiplication and division, it can make it more fun and enjoyable.
My kids have learned their times tables from listening to old episodes of Schoolhouse Rock on their ipods. How about a Youtube project of a class performing the songs? The rehearsal and planning alone would drill those multiplication tables in their heads before they even realized they were learning.
So, some of the reactions here sound a lot like those of my former colleagues and bosses and current clients and bosses. I'm not sure what those commenters mean when they say that Chris is somehow misguided in his story because social media is "just a tool" and that the kids need to "learn how to learn" or learn long division or other aspects of the three Rs... What do you think they are doing in Chris's scenario?
* They're writing blog posts, reading other students' posts, peer-reviewing posts, and analyzing the posts they're reading closely enough to add suggestions and corrections.
* They're using the Internet as a library to research topics, then they evaluate the results returned as videos, and post them for the class to see and use.
* The audio reports they've turned in for review are book reports, and I'm guessing that they are writing the reports before reading them and are likely graded on their thesis and its presentation.
* They've collected "information" in a prior unspecified assignment -- by searching, reading, interviewing, whatever -- and are collaboratively analyzing different methods of presenting their info to achieve a desired effect.
* They're outside collecting images and I'm guessing they're going to be asked to use those images to create a narrative, perhaps individually or in groups.
About the only thing I don't see here is a bunch of students struggling with long division, when they know that they can type the equation in Google's search bar or the calculator on their phone for the answer. And if you think that these kids are missing out on some thinking or math skills because they're not mechanically scratching out answers with pencil and paper, then you've never seen them learn to calculate a trajectory arc in a Sponge Bob game, evaluate the quickest route through an obstacle course to gather the maximum number of energy points possible, or learn by failing and losing and trying a different avenue to a solution.
It doesn't look like learning because the kids aren't sitting in nice neat rows, producing identical copies of information which bore them and bore the teacher who's done this same thing over and over with different kids, and it teaches the kids that learning is drudgery, experimentation is discouraged, and education is something that you only do in school.
This is a potential, blue-sky, best-of-all-possible-worlds scenario (well, except for the budget problems) and it is something we need to aim for. Our schools are failing because kids are not going to accept the importance of educational ideas which are rooted in the societal needs of the 19th & 20th centuries. As someone above pointed out, they are the "digital natives", and they are not going to take seriously explanations of how their world works from a bunch of newbies, kthxbai.
Concerns about safety should be addressed. Do any of the software companies consider allowing schools to use their tools in secure micro-environments so cultural proficiency need not be undermined by predators?
Laura
It does amaze me how much kids at a younger age know about computers and the internet. I don't think that this concept is that far off from a reality in some schools, or at least the near future reality. Everything that you described is easily accessible now but most of it isn't be used for these purposes. I also think we're more likely to see this type of thing in a college environment right now.
-Justin Levy
The post & comments here are so inspiring, so BIG-picture that I think this is something that transcends chrisbrogan.com in such a positive way.
Sure there are hurdles to anything this forward-thinking, but I for one have spent a good portion of my day just imagining the possibilities of a classroom that embraces new media in this manner... and I'm not even a teacher!
I like this concept... but not so much for the elementary students. More for the high schoolers who will be using BlackBoard and other online technologies in college, whether bricks-and-mortar or 100% online like Capella University.
Or, what about a family of four who go on vacation and the two kids, each of whom are in school, co-create a video or a series of blog posts, filmed/written on-location, and can both receive credit for an online interactive "show and tell" experience?
Going one step further, I remember being in middle or high school when the space shuttle went up and 2-way conversations were aired on live TV in class. How about taking that best practice example and use it for the kids on vacation, speaking to their peers from wherever and interviewing locals in real-time. Call it citizen journalism for 5th graders.
Hmm?
really loved this article! As a teacher, and as a web technology lover, I wish my school would introduce a course like that. I'd be happy to sign in and teach these kind of courses.
Cheers,
Max
While many of us here can see all of the flora and fauna, nature trails, waterfalls, and other pretty sites of the social media forest, to outsiders it is just a big clump of trees. It will still take a few years before the mainstream people will become curious enough to venture inside.
Oh, and on the downside?
Unfortunately, none of the elements in your story will ever be on the 6 o'clock news. Why? Well, intelligence is not news worthy - but a dog on a skateboard? Oh yea, that will sell some ad spots. Sad truths.
I think it is very valuable to learn audacity and some of the tools you mention, but there are more important things not being taught that are more fundamental.
1. Speaking - Why record an audio. Being a good speaker is more important and takes much more skill.
2. Personal Finance - Before you learn YouTube, maybe you should have weekly Quickbooks mock transactions to enter and write about. (Dull, I know. But important)
3. Efficiency - Maybe we should give each kid a budget and they can hire a virtual assistant or buy new software or have a custom app designed to simplify their lives. Now that is a great skill to have.
I think it would take a teacher a lot longer to grade audio files than writing. If they are going to go to the effort, why not just have them do oral presentations. The kid could include media in the presentation, such as playing an audio interview they conducted asking other people what they thought of the book. (If you really want to include audio)
Do not get me wrong. I am not a nay-sayer. My first company was built to advance technology in education. I just do not think that social media will become the main platform. Maybe Kindle, with lots of interactive features where people can collaborate and share will.
This was a fascinating and provocative post, with amazing comments furthering the discussion. Wow!
I'm going to agree with Adam. My daughter just entered 4th grade this week, and I want her to get her schooling in the disconnected world. Being hyper-connected swallows kids up soon enough.
As a learning experience, I don't see it. Kids of this age don't yet have the breadth of experience or the maturity to "curate their own material." Without reading the books and seeing the work of others, how are they to do this curating?
With all the equipment, I was reading this as a high school or college class. By high school kids can do some great stuff. They'll have picked up the skills outside of school, which is fine.
Remember when we weren't allowed to use calculators in grade school because we wouldn't learn the math with a tool in the way? Learning how to use the tools doesn't teach you the principles behind them, nor how to maximize your use of them.
Budgetary and teacher-training issues aside, I would love to see this come to pass—but for kids who've had a few more years of real-world learning under their belt first.
Regards,
Kelly
The problem with Web 2.0 and all that Audio.
"Dharmesh lets their discuss the benefits of a blog versus just adding a group to Ning."
their vs them
Pat OMahony, pomahony2@hotmail.com
And, the less said about nitpickers who see typos as "proof" for dismissing the entire point of the article, the better.
But let me give you a hint, Mr. Pedant: the author of this article is not a product of an educational paradigm such as the one he describes. Therefore, if your typo is proof of the "problem" with an educational system, it is proof of the one currently in place, and the one that produced everyone reading and commenting on this thread.
Technology offers so many avenues with regards to education, it's overwhelming.
As a teacher, I don't discount any idea that could provide a way to get students interested and excited about their classwork.
If a teacher stops learning, so will their students.
I doubt that in a classroom of 3rd graders every student would have an RSS reader.
Actually, I doubt that in a classroom of college students every student would have an RSS reader.
Imagine if each lecture of notes is distributed to students by RSS which they receive in a school- or subject-based feed; and then through videos or word processing, responses can be crafted for sharing and grading.
We won't have children, we'll have cyborgs ;)
Regards
James