Chris Brogan: Why I Promote the HELL out of Thesis
Graham
· 4 months ago
It's a shame the Thesis theme does not honor the GPL licensing terms it rightly inherits from Wordpress.
I don't mind paying for a good Wordpress theme but I should be able to do with it as I wish under GPL once I've paid for it.
So, DIYThemes doesn't get my business.
TrevorY
· 4 months ago
Good point, but I wouldn't call it a Theme, there are so many incredible features to Thesis. I would rather not mess with the code to ensure I can apply updates without having to recode the parts I messed with.
Graham
· 4 months ago
I wouldn't necessarily want to "mess with the code". My point is that under GPL I am free to use it on as many sites as I like. Thesis has restrictive, and as far as I can see invalid licensing terms.
balleyne
· 4 months ago
Thesis might actually be violating the GPL by not releasing their PHP code under the license. I'm sure it's a great theme, but no thanks with those sorts of legal and ethical problems hanging overhead.
elysa
· 4 months ago
hey Chris, while we're on the topic of your theme design ... I have a question for you.
Every time I set up a new theme the first thing I remove is Archive by date - do you think people go back and read April 2007? I've read archives by category many times but never by date. Just wondering your thoughts, Mr. Blog Expert :)
PS- I've been considering upgrading to Thesis for quite a while, but as a designer it's a huge commitment to change my theme at all because I'm sooo picky about my own designs. It's on the never ending to-do-soon list.
Chris Brogan
· 4 months ago
It's a great question. I think archive isn't usually very useful. My search is currently broken, or I'd probably not have it. I agree with your thinking. Who searches by month?
Once you get INTO the design, it's a good skeleton, but you're right that it takes some thinking.
Nicholas Young
· 4 months ago
Speaking of the search, I believe I know how to fix that if you need help. ;)
Long live Wordpress and Thesis. Both of them absolutely kick ass.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
How about an Archives page? There are plenty of plugins available with numerous layout options as well. Keeps the homepage clean and still allows your readers the option of going through old posts?
Ari Herzog
· 4 months ago
I don't know about my visitors--analytics don't indicate many are clicking into monthly archives--but I do. I sometimes wonder what I wrote 30 days ago, or 365 days ago. If not by a monthly archive, how would I know?
GlendaWH
· 4 months ago
Ari, I felt the same way when I was coerced to remove my Archives from the sidebar. Even if my readers didn't use them, I did! Now I view and search for posts through the admin panel in WordPress. The filter feature helps. I'm not totally convinced that way is easier. But, its not about me, its about my readers. Right?
Tim Jahn
· 4 months ago
I wish this was the way advertising worked too, Chris. As you say, it's the best of both worlds.
The story you have behind your promotion of Thesis matters a lot too. The more I see how personal your relationship with the product is, the more I don't mind you promoting it. Because I see that it truly is your opinion shining here, not any company paying you or pushing you to promote their product.
I appreciate your further explanation here and your continued openness with touchy subjects such as this. You continue to be a great example of how businesses and customers can successfully interact with mutual benefits.
Chris Brogan
· 4 months ago
That's a huge point, isn't it? The relationship/story behind the sale.
Hmm... someone should write a book about that.
CindyKing
· 4 months ago
The story behind the sale is definitely linked to other important topics too... like how to create loyalty. I'd love to see the recipe written down about how the story influences the community etc.
vinh ha
· 4 months ago
I couldn't agree with you more on all accounts chris. even as developers we love Thesis. it makes our job easier and quicker, and when we had off the project to the client, they have full control. we hand off a product that we're confident of.
TrevorY
· 4 months ago
Chris you are so right to promote Thesis and not just because it is the best thing that ever happened to WordPress.
Anyone who really took a look at Thesis should thank you for promoting it and turning them on to it. I am more than happy to click on your affiliate link to give you a little for saving me hours if not days to my time managing my WP sites.
Jeff Stolarcyk
· 4 months ago
And you just made a few bucks (I've been on the fence on Thesis for awhile, but I'm splurging and treating myself as an early birthday present). I don't know how much flack you get for promoting the theme, Chris, but all I ever sense when you post about Thesis is enthusiasm for it. At the end of the day, it all comes down to people and stories.
Adrienne Doss
· 4 months ago
"To me, any question about a WordPress theme ends in Thesis."
I couldn't have said it better myself. I paid for a Thesis developer's license, and it's one of the best business decisions I've ever made. Haven't made a dime from the affiliate program, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the product, and everything to do with the lack of effort I've put into promoting it.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
I used to love Thesis (still think it's a great theme) but unless you want to do coding (like you say), then many Thesis themes can look way too similar.
I moved over to Headway, as did John Haydon and a bunch of other Thesis users (Michael Martine, AKA @RemarkaBlogger is changing soon). It's far easier for novices to set up completely different designs on every page through drag-and-drop functionality. Yet, as you mention about Thesis, a real designer can really smoke on it too.
It's all about personal needs and what works. Obviously Mr. Pearson personalized your blog and not everyone can have that luxury but Thesis is still a good theme and works for you, and that's the main thing (hence the Thesis love).
And you'll be pleased to see I didn't leave one single affiliate link ;-)
Chris Brogan
· 4 months ago
Ohhh, by all means, if you have a good theme, share the link. People want to know.
That's my overarching point. We now have tools to SHARE better.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Don't disagree with you there fella, and it's the sharing of info that makes you who you are. I love that you're so passionate about something that you promote it and offer reasons why - isn't that what word-of-mouth marketing is all about? Without satisfied customers, businesses won't last long and it's another reason I love the WordPress community - you get to know which themes and plugins are worth looking at through the users you like and trust.
I wrote a post about Headway - that has some info there (and discloses the affiliate link):
So will you be going for a redesign again on the new Thesis, or happy to stay as is for now? BTW, liked the new newsletter format from Blue Sky, very personal yet still efficient.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Thesis 2.0 (coming in September) will have Headway developers back where they started... looking at what we've done and scrambling to catch up. Luckily, all our members get the newest version of Thesis for free, no matter when they buy.
Innovation always beats imitation (even when everyone involved with Headway has access to our forums and our code... imagine that). You simply don't know what the future looks like, and therefore Thesis will continue to set the standard.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
I'd say the Leafs system and drag and drop design with no need for CSS is pretty innovative, Brian, wouldn't you? And I'm sure Chris took the best ideas from existing WordPress themes and improved where he thought they could be when designing Thesis and his previous themes. Just the same as what Clay Griffiths has done with his alternative.
The free update for all users isn't restricted to the Thesis theme, by the way ;-)
amymengel
· 4 months ago
I partly agree with Danny in that a lot of Thesis blogs tend to look alike, but that doesn't have to be the case. I bought Thesis a month ago and was expecting to be able to do a lot more customization out of the box beyond just fonts, sizes, and column widths. I quickly realized that real design changes took a lot more CSS knowledge and coding to really make the theme look different.
However, I have no real coding background and through searching the Thesis user forums and user guide I was pretty much able to piece together bits of code here and there to give my blog what (I think) is a fairly unique look. There's probably even more that I can (and will) do to modify the design in the future. I took a long time (about 4-5 weeks) to perfect the design on a test server before I switched over to Thesis.
So yes, a lot of Thesis blogs might look alike, but the user doesn't have to be a coder/developer/designer to personalize it and make it their own. There are enough resources included with Thesis that I think it's well worth it.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
I agree Amy, and it's something I've always said about Thesis - it offers a great framework and the forums and other user tips are great.
It just boils down to how much work you want to put in. Headway is similar for the coder that wants to work on it, but as an out-of-the-box solution for as unique as a design you want without coding, I (personally) think it beats Thesis (at least at the minute).
At the end of the day, we all love the themes we have or else we wouldn't be using them, right? ;-)
kevinwandring
· 4 months ago
If it is so customizable how come you and John Haydon have such similar designs?
Guess I need to dig deeper into both and see what works best for me. Thanks for the heads up on Headway.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
I'm guessing you haven't flicked through the Pages, Kevin, and maybe went on first look at homepage impressions? :)
You'll see there is actually a difference. Plus, can't speak for John but I only spent between 5-6 hours on mine and just wanted something "pretty" to be live while deciding on overall look. As I mentioned in my post, I'm sure next few weeks will see my design evolve completely, especially knowing what Clay has up his sleeves for users.
In the meantime, try Chris Cree's site for how Headway can look with some extra coding:
The funniest part is that, although I've made many customizations to my own blog (http://johnhaydon.com), I have not used one bit of CSS code to do it. In fact, I don't even know where to find my custom file.
Ari Herzog
· 4 months ago
Many blogspot.com-powered blogs look the same, too. Many people writing the blogs look similar. But so what?
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Blogger is free. Wordpress.com is free. They're limited to the stylings of the supplied themes unless you want to pay a slight annual premium to play with the CSS code.
People like to try and make their blogs look slightly different and want to do this as easily as possible without too much work, and it's one of the reasons I'm liking Headway.
You should understand about "not following the crowd", Ari - isn't this why you unfollowed everyone on Twitter and started fresh (again)? ;-)
Jason Benfield
· 4 months ago
I agree with everyone and no one at the same time! lol
I was/am and avid Thesis them fan. Great theme especially for SEO purposes. Although I have to admit that with my no programming/CSS knowledge it got a little frustrating to break out of the 'Thesis Box' until I actually started to understand the open hook feature...
When you download the Thesis Open Hook Plug In in your wordpress backoffice it literally opens up the world of easy customizations. You never have to touch code and you can get amazing design results...
BUT, I do find myself as well switching to headway... because of the amount of variations you can get easily on the fly... If you want a 'Thesis' type look you can get it, but if you want to design ANY type of website you can as well...
I really didn't understand about how drastic the customization options were until I looked at...
If you want a bad a blogging theme go with Thesis hands down, if you want flexibility to get a zillion different layouts... go with headway...
That's my 2 cents...
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
"You simply don't know what the future looks like" - you might want to take your own advice? :-)
remarkablogger
· 4 months ago
Really, Brian? Really? C'mon, man. That hurts. It boggles my mind that for even one second you would think that. How can you possibly be serious?
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
What do you mean? That Headway wasn't inspired by Thesis (you just sent me email saying it was). Or that your marketing plan isn't inspired against Thesis (or some would say, uninspired)? And that all of you don't have access to everything we've released, done, and privately said as customers?
Sorry, which part hurts you?
You also said in your email that I've taught you how to market. Well, I've never marketed this way, so I think you're missing it.
remarkablogger
· 4 months ago
I guess I'm just a bad student, then. :-)
This certainly has been a huge learning experience. We've been very pleased. People really dig Headway. I am excited for the next version of Thesis, too (yes, really). I still use it on sites and it will be interesting to see how Thesis and Headway seem similar and different from each other. I think both products will be stronger because of each other and everyone will benefit.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Martine, you're impossible to stay mad at. ;-)
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
There's a Headway marketing plan? I think I missed that meeting. :-)
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
Chris - one reason (among many) that I switched to Headway was my relationship with Grant Griffiths (his son built Headway). I've know Grant for about a year and he's become a good friend.
Seems to be a theme of late, Chris, you feeling like you to justify your 100 per cent free content to the few people who might object to you actually, you know, earning a living. And doing so with absolute transparency.
I hope it's not something that you're dwelling on.
so
· 4 months ago
I love thesis. But it is kind of a nightmare if you dont know how to code... :) Im learning!
Brian
· 4 months ago
Pop in the OpenHook plugin if you haven't - it should really simplify things.
I love Thesis as well!
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
You still need to know about coding for the hooks system, but it is a big improvement over skeleton code.
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
Ditto. When I was using Thesis, I made 111 posts in the forum. These were mainly questions about how to code Thesis to make it do things Headway does out of the box.
Again, I still feel that Thesis is a great theme, and it really took a lot for me to switch from Thesis to Headway. In the end, it was layout flexibility and ease of use.
fbahram
· 4 months ago
I love Thesis too. I only set it up 3 days ago and am still getting things to where I like them. I did however read from Copyblogger that you would get the SEO School for free through Naomi but have not heard from her yet.........wish there were a way to find out. Nonetheless, side-tracked, as I do love the typography, look & feel, and the ambiance that Thesis provides to the website.........the rotator image folder also is a lot of fun :)!
Cynthia LaLuna
· 4 months ago
Did you email Naomi your receipt? I think that was part of the requirement. I was sad b/c I don't have SEO School yet but I already have Thesis!
fbahram
· 4 months ago
Absolutely I did, Twice. No response yet.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
I just emailed her and got an autoresponse that says she is at a family function. The email I got promises that she'll deliver the ebook as soon as she gets back.
Did you get that?
fbahram
· 4 months ago
Thank you so much! I can certainly wait. I did not receive an Autoresponse at all, and wasn't aware. This is super; I will wait with baited breath for my ebook and in the meanwhile, THANK YOU!! :)
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Hey there... if you emailed Naomi your receipt and she hasn't responded, let me know. I'll track her down for you and get your ebook.
David Cain
· 4 months ago
I love Thesis too. I've never run another theme, I'm not sure I'd know how. I'm hooked on OpenHook!
owenl
· 4 months ago
While I really like and respect Thesis, I have to say it is worthwhile taking a look at the totally free Atahualpa theme as well. Different approach, different features but approaching the same level of flexibility - see http://wordpress.bytesforall.com
clarabela
· 4 months ago
I totally agree. I use Thesis on my site, and while I could never afford to have Chris Pearson design a site for me. He has made the Thesis theme easy enough to use that a person with very little web design experience (like me) can create some that looks great.
I used Cutline and Neoclassical, two other free Pearson theme, but when I finally decided to take my site seriously and invest some money into it, I bought Thesis. Believe me, it is well worth the price.
So now I have done my sales pitch too...and I am not getting paid.
genuinechris
· 4 months ago
Chris-
First time, long time. Anyway, I agree. I've struggled like heck with this issue. I think that every single person should buy the Freelance X factor, they should buy Michael Martine's WP SEO book and they should buy the Launch the ***** out of your ebook book by @rockyourday.
I promote and have sold a bunch,. Never gotten a check. Don't care. I want my clients to know 100% that I've got their best interests, not my wallet at heart. It puts me in a bind because they willingly and freely pay it...and my clients would be happy about it.
I agree with you, as long as you stand behind products you promote there is not a conflict of interest.
Chris Brogan
· 4 months ago
Of those, I bought Launch the ***** out of your ebook, and really loved it. I would promote it, too. I agree with your perspective.
Glad you decloaked. : )
genuinechris
· 4 months ago
The Launch the **** out of your e-book was well intended. It could have had a different title and been more accurate; a lot of it was on writing one...not launching an existing one.
I had written and started my book--that I wrote at the end of the begining of my freelance journey (http://ftherapybook.com) before I did anything with it. I had some cash needs pop up and thus, had to switch gears.
jakrose
· 4 months ago
Thesis looks great. I would have bought it a while ago if it was GPL compliant. Matt of Automattic advises against it. It is not in the spirit of Wordpress, an open source platform.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
My guess is Matt and I have a closer relationship than you have with Matt. The GPL issue is well framed between us. You'll notice that Matt hasn't said a word in months, and that's because we actually discuss these things privately while others leave uninformed comments.
And none of you Headway busy bees has stepped up you to address whether Headway is expressly GPL. What's up with that?
jakrose
· 4 months ago
I am sure you know Matt better than I Brian. And I do hope you guys are working things out. I can only assume you are calling my comment uninformed.
My "uninformed comment" comes from talking to Matt face to face in the middle of June. I asked him directly about Thesis and whether he recommended it. He said no, talked about why and the GPL issue, and recommended a few other comparable themes.
As I said I think Thesis looks great. Plenty of smart people promote it as a quality product. I respect that. I also respect Matt's point of view and have researched the issue on my own to come to my decision. I choose not to use it personally, and feel it is pretty fair for me to state my opinion for others to take what they will from it and make their own decision.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Thanks for the info... seriously.
Seems Matt is talking out both sides of his neck, which is not a surprise. What's a surprise is that he didn't think it would get back to me.
Thanks again.
jakrose
· 4 months ago
I do not think it is a secret that Matt doesn't recommend Thesis (although as you said, you may have additional insight there). I have seen the same thoughts posted in comments by him on some of the blog posts that were debating the issue in June. My view is that he does not try to attack Thesis, just simply states his case that all themes should be GPL.
I would love for you to direct me to the Thesis side of the debate. Is there a blog post or comment string that lays out the other side of the argument?
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Hi Jason,
There's some good back and forth between Matt, Brian and others here (with valid points all round):
But I notice that you've read a bunch of June posts so this may be redundant ;-)
jakrose
· 4 months ago
Yeah I read that back and forth when it happened. Went in and reviewed it a bit. I think when you get to the backbone of the debate, the legalities take over. Either side could really claim the law is on their side.
For me I think the final decision reflects having the ability to completely rewrite every aspect of the theme if I choose. That is not for everyone.
jsinkeywest
· 4 months ago
People will always side with the Benjamins :) and say what protects THEIR wallet :( NOT ME LOL JAK where you been ? All you OLD TIMERS are on alert someone is in MY SEAT See you soon :) Just for the record I like and respect BOTH Chris B and P
Matt
· 4 months ago
Nothing I haven't said directly and publicly -- I don't recommend *any* non-GPL themes, which at this moment includes both Thesis and Headway. If either goes GPL I'm looking forward to diving in and seeing what all the fuss is about.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Matt, there's a difference between recommending and trash talking. I thought we had a gentleman's agreement based on our discussions, but I'm finding gentlemen few and far between in this business.
Apolinaras Sinkevicius
· 4 months ago
Hmmm... I thought Thesis was run by professionals. Apparently not. All I see is pissing match between egos. Maybe it is time to step away from dirt slinging and act in a professional manner, especially in public forums.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Hey there Brian, I'm chatting with Clay about the GPL of Headway now. He's sending Headway to Matt Mullenweg re. GPL and will be looking to offer the best option that suits both parties and WordPress developers in general.
With regards Matt hasn't spoken, he did post this beginning of July:
Anyhoo, I'm not sure what the big deal is? Isn't competition healthy? This "developer bashing" seems to go against the WordPress community approach, no?
jakrose
· 4 months ago
I thought the Commercially Supported GPL Themes directory was a really good idea. Gives some clarity to what Automattic supports. I also just dig the haikus they include with each developer.
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
They are funky for sure :)
But yep, it encourages a nice community feel, and for WordPress users, that's one of the major pluses of that platform.
billellis
· 4 months ago
Chris, your approach to endorsing, promoting, touting or otherwise pointing out the positive attributes of a product you use is absolutely ethical and frankly, appreciated. It's nice to have someone push what they use and love as opposed to folks who are in it just for the referral fee. I appreciate your insights and endorsement of Thesis. When/if I become a blogger I will certainly avail myself to the insights of someone as accomplished at it as you are. Keep it up
provirtual
· 4 months ago
Hi Chris - I use Thesis as well and love it. The features make many commonly-used plugins unnecessary and I love the clean base design. SEO features are reason alone to use it.
Also love Frugal, and anything by WooThemes. Would also like to try Headway - looks lovely!
I like to mix it up. ;-)
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Great approach, Mary! I have a couple of iThemes running for some clients, three Woo themes, some of Brian Gardner's stuff, a Thesis and now Headway. Different strokes for different folks and no harm in mixing it up, as you say :)
provirtual
· 4 months ago
Hey Danny - I like Brian Gardner too! I like the idea of floating different themes to the client so they have more choice and more flexibility.
Thanks for replying! ;-)
Melanie Johnston
· 4 months ago
Chris, I love THESIS, but being a graphic designer wasn't enough since I didn't have any coding experience. I took a few days to try to learn it (loud laughter from the gallery) but that didn't take. So I found a clever fellow who is helping me out with scottsdaledealfinder.com. I think he's doing a great job of making THESIS as individual as everyone imagines it will be. Just wanted to plug Jeff at WPDesignClub for saving my bacon.
David Wright/ Blogger Dad
· 4 months ago
Here are my thoughts on Thesis.
I first saw the theme last August and it was the first theme I felt was worth the investment - which at the time, for me, was a lot of money. I don't regret the decision at all.
Having said that, I knew next to nothing about css when I started and found the original version of Thesis lacking in newbie-friendly customization. I had to read a lot to do the things I have done with Thesis and to make sites which do not look like standard out-of-the-box Thesis sites.Thankfully the Thesis forums and members and even Chris Pearson himself have been extremely helpful in helping me with design questions.
Really, I can't recall a more supportive or lively product forum ever. Thesis has improved a lot since I bought it and the community is very active in helping others and suggesting new improvements.
Is Thesis perfect yet? No, but it is so close I can taste it.
What would make it perfect? * easy customization via an intuitive dashboard GUI which allows for color and option changes * a thorough set of video tutorials * more layout options via the dashboard * a PDF including an introduction to things Thesis users need to know assuming the buyer is brand spanking new to blogging and css, commonly asked Thesis customization questions * More Text and/or files including example customizations and skins that people can implement.
From what I've read, Headway seems to allow for easier customization for the average user as does Eric Hamm's excellent Frugal, which I have just implemented for the first time on one of my sites.
One of the coolest things I like about the Frugal Theme is that Eric Hamm wrote a lengthy guide to CSS which is included in the download. It is friendly and informative and helps you when you want to make changes. He also has some great video tutorials on his site. It is those extras that made me appreciate the customer service so much that I now tout Frugal as well as Thesis.
I may be naive to think this, but I believe there is room for several great premium themes and from what I've seen, Thesis, Frugal and Headway are all GREAT options. As someone who now customizes blogs, I appreciate having a variety of great options.
In summary: I will continue to support Thesis and recommend it and use it for clients and I am excited like a kid in a candy store to see what changes are in store for Pearson's masterpiece.
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
David - I have to agree with you on the Thesis user forum. I found the folks in the forum very helpful - especially Rick and Kristarella.
CindyKing
· 4 months ago
WOW! what a discussion and comparison between Thesis and Headway!
I love Thesis & am a HUGE fan of Brian Clark's marketing style. I also really appreciate the customer mindset Brian has... I've seen this in play in Teaching Sells and Partnering Profits. He has always been consistent. I'm hooked. Unfortunately for Headway, or any others, it'll be a long time before I choose another environment.
Sure Headway looks kind of fun, but I can't imagine having a blog or a website and not having to get your hands dirty with code at some point. Is that the only big difference between the two?
I must say that it is great to see another good player out there. But of course, after reading these comments I can't wait for the next Thesis upgrade :)
Danny Brown
· 4 months ago
Oh you can still get your hands very dirty with Headway, Cindy - developers and coders weren't forgotten about :)
John Haydon
· 4 months ago
The big difference between Thesis and Headway is that Headway can create radically different layouts with a visual editor (no coding - really). You can even have various different side bars on single post pages, category archives and pages (not posts), as I've done with my site.
I think they're both great themes, and it all comes down to personal preference.
rtolmach
· 4 months ago
Thesis looks great, but I couldn't find an answer to my question on their site. Perhaps someone here can advise. I have an existing WordPress site. Don't want to change the design or functionality at all, but I like the SEO, etc elements built into Thesis. Can I migrate over to get those benefits without having to recreate the site? Thanks!
Wesley Craig Green
· 4 months ago
I would highly recommend Thesis to anyone in the market for a new theme. Before Thesis, I just used free themes I found online which were good but nothing like Thesis. And for the price, it is a steal for all the power it gives you.
Wesley Craig Green The Geek Entrepreneur
Andreas Duess
· 4 months ago
Chris, I paid for a thesis license via paypal, using their payment page. The payment went through no problem but when I got redirected to my thesis account page the license had not been applied.
No big deal, I thought, I'll contact support. Except, I can't.
Unfortunately there is no support email address posted, there is no way to contact the developer. No big deal, I said again, I post in the support forum. Which, it turns out, I can't because the payment has not been registered against the account.
There is no contact page, there is no twitter account, there is absolutely nothing that I can see.
So the theme might be just wonderful, but I have no way to find out because I can't access it and I can't tell anybody there's been an error because there's no contact details. Not good.
If there has been no communication from them by tomorrow the only action left open to me seems to be disputing the payment.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Hi Andreas, if the payment went through, your PayPal receipt contains the support email address. If you didn't get the email, your payment likely didn't go through.
Sent two emails to the address on my paypal receipt - payment went through fine. Sent you a message via twitter.
No response yet from any of these channels, no resolution when I log into my account. Forgive me for being less than impressed. I am feeling slightly stupid for having to use Chris's blog comments to get a reaction.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Andreas, forgive me, but we have no record of any emails from you.
I'm a little confused how you didn't take that option before this comment.
Andreas Duess
· 4 months ago
WIll do. Still, please check what went wrong there. I am happy to send you screenshots of a: a paypal receipt b: me following you on twitter and trying to contact you over there c: me sending you two emails to your gmail account.
I am totally confused why none of my attempts to contact you - once I figured out how to actually contact you - did make it thorugh. One failure, like email being down, I understand, multiple I don't.
Brian Clark
· 4 months ago
Andreas, OK... found the transaction... looks like you purchased yesterday close to 4pm eastern, which means it might have been after our support hours when you contact them... please give us time to respond. ;-) Our support team usually gets back the next morning US eastern time.
Secondly, PayPal is reviewing the transaction. They do this for security purposes (usually for people outside of the US), and it's totally their call, not ours. When they clear the transaction, everything will become available on our end.
Sorry about the delay, but again, this is something PayPal has done based on the source of funds, not us. Sit tight... hopefully PayPal will approve the transaction today.
Des Walsh
· 4 months ago
Tell me about PayPal for us foreigners! In 2007 at BlogWorld I paid $10 for membership of IBNMA. PayPal froze my account because the transaction was in the US and I live in Australia. When I finally got to speak to someone at PayPay they assured me blithely that they would do it again and no, they had no capacity or intention of emulating the credit card people who let you flag your travels and don't block your transactions when they come from where you said you'd be.
I know this is peripheral to the main topics here, but it felt good to write that. :)
Andreas Duess
· 4 months ago
I hate, hate, hate the way paypal tries to force you to use/open a paypal account when all you want to do is pay via credit card - because, you know, my credit card gives me consumer protection paypal can only dream of.
I understand why vendors use paypal - trying to open a proper merchant account is no fun - but they are indeed the devil's spawn as far as I am concerned.
cynthialaluna
· 4 months ago
Hi Andreas,
Just a quick note about PayPal. If the user has established a merchant account with PayPal (as opposed to just a personal account - it's free and only requires a few more methods of identification) - then the buyer does not have to sign up for PayPal. My own account is set up that way. I'm not sure if it works that way for international buyers, but it certainly does for domestic. Urge people you buy from to take that extra step!
Andreas Duess
· 4 months ago
It's not even that - I do have a paypal account, a merchant account, but I don't want to use it for purchases.
The thing that's annoying is that a: the pay by credit card link tends to be hidden away and that b: I always get a page telling me that I have a paypal account and why aren't I using it? This then requires one more click to tell them to go away and allow me to use my Visa card.
Darren
· 1 month ago
Adult fanboyism ftw! I learnt loads from just the comments! Thanks everyone! :P HJave to say i love thesis too :P
Stefan Suarez
· 1 month ago
Trying to figure out what to buy: Headway or Thesis... ended up trying to figure out what GPL really means and seeing the people I'm starting to follow.. argue :) Kinda fun.. in a nice educational way.
All Comments
I don't mind paying for a good Wordpress theme but I should be able to do with it as I wish under GPL once I've paid for it.
So, DIYThemes doesn't get my business.
Every time I set up a new theme the first thing I remove is Archive by date - do you think people go back and read April 2007? I've read archives by category many times but never by date. Just wondering your thoughts, Mr. Blog Expert :)
PS- I've been considering upgrading to Thesis for quite a while, but as a designer it's a huge commitment to change my theme at all because I'm sooo picky about my own designs. It's on the never ending to-do-soon list.
Once you get INTO the design, it's a good skeleton, but you're right that it takes some thinking.
Long live Wordpress and Thesis. Both of them absolutely kick ass.
The story you have behind your promotion of Thesis matters a lot too. The more I see how personal your relationship with the product is, the more I don't mind you promoting it. Because I see that it truly is your opinion shining here, not any company paying you or pushing you to promote their product.
I appreciate your further explanation here and your continued openness with touchy subjects such as this. You continue to be a great example of how businesses and customers can successfully interact with mutual benefits.
Hmm... someone should write a book about that.
Anyone who really took a look at Thesis should thank you for promoting it and turning them on to it. I am more than happy to click on your affiliate link to give you a little for saving me hours if not days to my time managing my WP sites.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I paid for a Thesis developer's license, and it's one of the best business decisions I've ever made. Haven't made a dime from the affiliate program, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the product, and everything to do with the lack of effort I've put into promoting it.
I moved over to Headway, as did John Haydon and a bunch of other Thesis users (Michael Martine, AKA @RemarkaBlogger is changing soon). It's far easier for novices to set up completely different designs on every page through drag-and-drop functionality. Yet, as you mention about Thesis, a real designer can really smoke on it too.
It's all about personal needs and what works. Obviously Mr. Pearson personalized your blog and not everyone can have that luxury but Thesis is still a good theme and works for you, and that's the main thing (hence the Thesis love).
And you'll be pleased to see I didn't leave one single affiliate link ;-)
That's my overarching point. We now have tools to SHARE better.
I wrote a post about Headway - that has some info there (and discloses the affiliate link):
http://dannybrown.me/2009/07/31/making-the-swit...
So will you be going for a redesign again on the new Thesis, or happy to stay as is for now? BTW, liked the new newsletter format from Blue Sky, very personal yet still efficient.
Innovation always beats imitation (even when everyone involved with Headway has access to our forums and our code... imagine that). You simply don't know what the future looks like, and therefore Thesis will continue to set the standard.
The free update for all users isn't restricted to the Thesis theme, by the way ;-)
However, I have no real coding background and through searching the Thesis user forums and user guide I was pretty much able to piece together bits of code here and there to give my blog what (I think) is a fairly unique look. There's probably even more that I can (and will) do to modify the design in the future. I took a long time (about 4-5 weeks) to perfect the design on a test server before I switched over to Thesis.
So yes, a lot of Thesis blogs might look alike, but the user doesn't have to be a coder/developer/designer to personalize it and make it their own. There are enough resources included with Thesis that I think it's well worth it.
It just boils down to how much work you want to put in. Headway is similar for the coder that wants to work on it, but as an out-of-the-box solution for as unique as a design you want without coding, I (personally) think it beats Thesis (at least at the minute).
At the end of the day, we all love the themes we have or else we wouldn't be using them, right? ;-)
Guess I need to dig deeper into both and see what works best for me. Thanks for the heads up on Headway.
You'll see there is actually a difference. Plus, can't speak for John but I only spent between 5-6 hours on mine and just wanted something "pretty" to be live while deciding on overall look. As I mentioned in my post, I'm sure next few weeks will see my design evolve completely, especially knowing what Clay has up his sleeves for users.
In the meantime, try Chris Cree's site for how Headway can look with some extra coding:
http://chriscree.tv/
A. http://dannybrown.me/
B. http://successcreeations.com/
The funniest part is that, although I've made many customizations to my own blog (http://johnhaydon.com), I have not used one bit of CSS code to do it. In fact, I don't even know where to find my custom file.
People like to try and make their blogs look slightly different and want to do this as easily as possible without too much work, and it's one of the reasons I'm liking Headway.
You should understand about "not following the crowd", Ari - isn't this why you unfollowed everyone on Twitter and started fresh (again)? ;-)
I was/am and avid Thesis them fan. Great theme especially for SEO purposes. Although I have to admit that with my no programming/CSS knowledge it got a little frustrating to break out of the 'Thesis Box' until I actually started to understand the open hook feature...
When you download the Thesis Open Hook Plug In in your wordpress backoffice it literally opens up the world of easy customizations. You never have to touch code and you can get amazing design results...
BUT, I do find myself as well switching to headway... because of the amount of variations you can get easily on the fly... If you want a 'Thesis' type look you can get it, but if you want to design ANY type of website you can as well...
I really didn't understand about how drastic the customization options were until I looked at...
http://dannybrown.me/
and then I saw a site from a lady that used headway with NO DESIGN SKILLS...
http://lawyersarah.com/
If you want a bad a blogging theme go with Thesis hands down, if you want flexibility to get a zillion different layouts... go with headway...
That's my 2 cents...
Sorry, which part hurts you?
You also said in your email that I've taught you how to market. Well, I've never marketed this way, so I think you're missing it.
This certainly has been a huge learning experience. We've been very pleased. People really dig Headway. I am excited for the next version of Thesis, too (yes, really). I still use it on sites and it will be interesting to see how Thesis and Headway seem similar and different from each other. I think both products will be stronger because of each other and everyone will benefit.
More here: http://johnhaydon.com/2009/08/switched-wordpres... (PS - turn down your computer volume - I've been told that the AC/DC intro is too loud)
I hope it's not something that you're dwelling on.
Im learning!
I love Thesis as well!
Again, I still feel that Thesis is a great theme, and it really took a lot for me to switch from Thesis to Headway. In the end, it was layout flexibility and ease of use.
Did you get that?
I used Cutline and Neoclassical, two other free Pearson theme, but when I finally decided to take my site seriously and invest some money into it, I bought Thesis. Believe me, it is well worth the price.
So now I have done my sales pitch too...and I am not getting paid.
First time, long time. Anyway, I agree. I've struggled like heck with this issue. I think that every single person should buy the Freelance X factor, they should buy Michael Martine's WP SEO book and they should buy the Launch the ***** out of your ebook book by @rockyourday.
I promote and have sold a bunch,. Never gotten a check. Don't care. I want my clients to know 100% that I've got their best interests, not my wallet at heart. It puts me in a bind because they willingly and freely pay it...and my clients would be happy about it.
I agree with you, as long as you stand behind products you promote there is not a conflict of interest.
Glad you decloaked. : )
I had written and started my book--that I wrote at the end of the begining of my freelance journey (http://ftherapybook.com) before I did anything with it. I had some cash needs pop up and thus, had to switch gears.
And none of you Headway busy bees has stepped up you to address whether Headway is expressly GPL. What's up with that?
My "uninformed comment" comes from talking to Matt face to face in the middle of June. I asked him directly about Thesis and whether he recommended it. He said no, talked about why and the GPL issue, and recommended a few other comparable themes.
As I said I think Thesis looks great. Plenty of smart people promote it as a quality product. I respect that. I also respect Matt's point of view and have researched the issue on my own to come to my decision. I choose not to use it personally, and feel it is pretty fair for me to state my opinion for others to take what they will from it and make their own decision.
Seems Matt is talking out both sides of his neck, which is not a surprise. What's a surprise is that he didn't think it would get back to me.
Thanks again.
I would love for you to direct me to the Thesis side of the debate. Is there a blog post or comment string that lays out the other side of the argument?
There's some good back and forth between Matt, Brian and others here (with valid points all round):
http://pomomusings.com/2009/06/04/switch-wordpr...
But I notice that you've read a bunch of June posts so this may be redundant ;-)
For me I think the final decision reflects having the ability to completely rewrite every aspect of the theme if I choose. That is not for everyone.
and say what protects THEIR wallet :( NOT ME LOL
JAK where you been ?
All you OLD TIMERS are on alert
someone is in MY SEAT
See you soon :)
Just for the record I like and respect BOTH Chris B and P
With regards Matt hasn't spoken, he did post this beginning of July:
http://wordpress.org/development/2009/07/themes...
Anyhoo, I'm not sure what the big deal is? Isn't competition healthy? This "developer bashing" seems to go against the WordPress community approach, no?
But yep, it encourages a nice community feel, and for WordPress users, that's one of the major pluses of that platform.
Also love Frugal, and anything by WooThemes. Would also like to try Headway - looks lovely!
I like to mix it up. ;-)
Thanks for replying! ;-)
I first saw the theme last August and it was the first theme I felt was worth the investment - which at the time, for me, was a lot of money. I don't regret the decision at all.
Having said that, I knew next to nothing about css when I started and found the original version of Thesis lacking in newbie-friendly customization. I had to read a lot to do the things I have done with Thesis and to make sites which do not look like standard out-of-the-box Thesis sites.Thankfully the Thesis forums and members and even Chris Pearson himself have been extremely helpful in helping me with design questions.
Really, I can't recall a more supportive or lively product forum ever. Thesis has improved a lot since I bought it and the community is very active in helping others and suggesting new improvements.
Is Thesis perfect yet? No, but it is so close I can taste it.
What would make it perfect?
* easy customization via an intuitive dashboard GUI which allows for color and option changes
* a thorough set of video tutorials
* more layout options via the dashboard
* a PDF including an introduction to things Thesis users need to know assuming the buyer is brand spanking new to blogging and css, commonly asked Thesis customization questions
* More Text and/or files including example customizations and skins that people can implement.
From what I've read, Headway seems to allow for easier customization for the average user as does Eric Hamm's excellent Frugal, which I have just implemented for the first time on one of my sites.
One of the coolest things I like about the Frugal Theme is that Eric Hamm wrote a lengthy guide to CSS which is included in the download. It is friendly and informative and helps you when you want to make changes. He also has some great video tutorials on his site. It is those extras that made me appreciate the customer service so much that I now tout Frugal as well as Thesis.
I may be naive to think this, but I believe there is room for several great premium themes and from what I've seen, Thesis, Frugal and Headway are all GREAT options. As someone who now customizes blogs, I appreciate having a variety of great options.
In summary: I will continue to support Thesis and recommend it and use it for clients and I am excited like a kid in a candy store to see what changes are in store for Pearson's masterpiece.
I love Thesis & am a HUGE fan of Brian Clark's marketing style. I also really appreciate the customer mindset Brian has... I've seen this in play in Teaching Sells and Partnering Profits. He has always been consistent. I'm hooked. Unfortunately for Headway, or any others, it'll be a long time before I choose another environment.
Sure Headway looks kind of fun, but I can't imagine having a blog or a website and not having to get your hands dirty with code at some point. Is that the only big difference between the two?
I must say that it is great to see another good player out there. But of course, after reading these comments I can't wait for the next Thesis upgrade :)
I think they're both great themes, and it all comes down to personal preference.
Thanks!
Wesley Craig Green
The Geek Entrepreneur
No big deal, I thought, I'll contact support. Except, I can't.
Unfortunately there is no support email address posted, there is no way to contact the developer. No big deal, I said again, I post in the support forum. Which, it turns out, I can't because the payment has not been registered against the account.
There is no contact page, there is no twitter account, there is absolutely nothing that I can see.
So the theme might be just wonderful, but I have no way to find out because I can't access it and I can't tell anybody there's been an error because there's no contact details. Not good.
If there has been no communication from them by tomorrow the only action left open to me seems to be disputing the payment.
We're on Twitter @diythemes
You can also contact me here:
http://www.copyblogger.com/contact/
Or @copyblogger on Twitter
Or @pearsonified on Twitter
Hope this helps.
Sent two emails to the address on my paypal receipt - payment went through fine. Sent you a message via twitter.
No response yet from any of these channels, no resolution when I log into my account. Forgive me for being less than impressed. I am feeling slightly stupid for having to use Chris's blog comments to get a reaction.
No tweets to me either.
Why not email me directly via Copyblogger?
http://www.copyblogger.com/contact/
I'm a little confused how you didn't take that option before this comment.
I am totally confused why none of my attempts to contact you - once I figured out how to actually contact you - did make it thorugh. One failure, like email being down, I understand, multiple I don't.
Secondly, PayPal is reviewing the transaction. They do this for security purposes (usually for people outside of the US), and it's totally their call, not ours. When they clear the transaction, everything will become available on our end.
Sorry about the delay, but again, this is something PayPal has done based on the source of funds, not us. Sit tight... hopefully PayPal will approve the transaction today.
I know this is peripheral to the main topics here, but it felt good to write that. :)
I understand why vendors use paypal - trying to open a proper merchant account is no fun - but they are indeed the devil's spawn as far as I am concerned.
Just a quick note about PayPal. If the user has established a merchant account with PayPal (as opposed to just a personal account - it's free and only requires a few more methods of identification) - then the buyer does not have to sign up for PayPal. My own account is set up that way. I'm not sure if it works that way for international buyers, but it certainly does for domestic. Urge people you buy from to take that extra step!
The thing that's annoying is that a: the pay by credit card link tends to be hidden away and that b: I always get a page telling me that I have a paypal account and why aren't I using it? This then requires one more click to tell them to go away and allow me to use my Visa card.
HJave to say i love thesis too :P