chrisbrogan.com - Latest Comments in When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Paula Lee Bright — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:49 -0000

Seeing Apple in so many places reinforces my belief that it's valued by many "in the know," and that it's a household trusted name as a provider of quality.

If we didn't see so many Apples in movies and the Apple logo in [an airport] it might drift from our minds, and not be there when we finally need a computer replacerd.

But hey. I'm a novice to this. That's just my immediate response.

Now I'll go below and see what the REAL people think! ;)

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

yuregininsesi — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 09:17:10 -0000

Sponsoring is not direct marketing. There is no short term ROI. It involves brand recognition and benevolence, both long term investments. In the online world we expect immediate results but in the brick and mortar world I'm sure they are hoping that someday when a consumer has to make a choice between two vendors the buyer will remember the feeling back when they were given something for free and will then pay their dues. Think of it like social media marketing where the gift is an investment in relationships.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

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Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Tk Ogun — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:39:10 -0000

I agree with Michelle Kostya traditional advertising works over time and is used to reinforce the message of the brand. It's hard to measure it's effectiveness, but it does work. I may not buy something from Samsung immediately because of the charging station, but it does have an impression on me.
Tk Ogun
2505 Studios.com

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Kelley — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:47:44 -0000

Here's the thing: If your company is not advertising or sponsoring things like wifi in airports, bus stations, convention centers, etc, then some other company will be. And you want to be top of mind when a consumer discovers a need for something. Example: I am in the market for car insurance. I have always been on my parents policy, but now need to get my own. I immediatly thought of Geico. Why? Probably because I have seen at least 200 of their ads. I have seen TV advertisements, heard them on the radio, seen billboards, they have sponsored sports events and on and on. As a marketer who focuses solely on lead generation (as opposed to marcomm or PR), I understand the need to track ROI of campaigns. However, I also understand the need to have your brand top of mind in consumers' heads - which may have to be accomplished with such methods as billboards, ads on the sides of NYC busses or on the tray tables of airplane seats. Do you agree?

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Jeff Scott — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:02:29 -0000

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

kathy — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:14:21 -0000

Three years ago, we had the opportunity to buy a traditional billboard on I-91 here in W. Mass. We took it and the response was beyond anything we would have expected. More people came off the highway, to our store, for the first time AND commented on seeing the billboard more than any other piece of media we had used to date. We lost the board after about 6 months - the company sold the location and the new company wasn't as flexible with it's pricing.

We've been searching for another board off and on since. Company A contacted me 4 weeks ago. They now own the board again and offered a great deal. Our board will go up at the end of the month.

For 2009, there is no question we have shifted dollars from traditional media to more on-line, more SM, more "conversational" mediums for connecting with our customers. At the same time, traditional advertising is still a factor for us and more importantly our customer.

We may find that three years later, the impact of the board will not be nearly as great as it was in '05/'06 - we'll see. I'll keep you posted.

There's no question in my mind that social media is critical to our future success and growth, but right now it's a piece of the puzzle, not the entire answer.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

gerardmclean — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:53:17 -0000

@Matthew Gilbert :-) Glad you're on board.. it was the Chuck E. Cheese tokens that sold me! I am being facetious, of course, but it does get you wondering if whatever network is broadcasting the 50th Super Bowl, if we would set up a page that took "Obama-esque" donations of $1000 each and raised $10million dollars and had 10,000 brands, would they take our money and string that together, read that off on a 6 minute ad and link to us all on a web page? I'll bet they would and that would be very, very interesting. Would it be worth it to us?

@Peter Yeah, I can see sponsoring urinals with PlainJoe Coffee. "Hey, if your pee doesn't have that coffee smell, you should be buying PlainJoe! http://plainjoe.com " yup, you're seeing it in your mind too.. and it is at once funny and repulsive.. but, you're thinking about clicking to the PlainJoe Web site now, ain't ya? Yes, you are....

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

greg cryns — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:49:27 -0000

It's there because it works. Yes.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

greg cryns — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:46:14 -0000

For all those who are dissing traditional advertising, this reminds me a bit of the kids screaming "Microsoft sucks".

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Sarah Montague — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:23:21 -0000

In this mega fragemented media world I don't think silver bullets exists. Which means you may need to try different elements that are well orchestrated and integrated. There is room for offline and online but all the pieces should be strategic and smart. Key is contextual relevance and the creative needs to be smart. Where are your customers? When might they be thinking about your product or a related product? Zappos airport security shoe bin worked so elegantly because of this relevance.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Seth Goldstein — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:49:48 -0000

Chris,

I do agree that for most people traditional forms of advertising don't work anymore, but for the average consumer, I think that seeing that new cool phone on a billboard does make them think of your product. If they think about your product enough they might just buy it. That being said, could the money be better spent in another way? Yes, totally. Social media is the wave of the future but some companies just don't get it or don't want to get it.

-Seth

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Matthew Gilbert — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:49:37 -0000

@peter The irony is that advertising is now emulating the "Ugly American" in a foreign country where he doesn't speak the language and whose response to nobody understanding him is to yell loudly. And, of course, that never works. But listening does. Imagine that?!

Matthew Gilbert
doctorious.org
@doctorious

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Matthew Gilbert — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:36:56 -0000

@gerardmclean Well I have $27.43 and three Chuck E. Cheese tokens in my pocket right now -- how close will that get you to achieving your inspirational advertising vision? Will it at least cover "doctorious.org" (my favorite part, of course). =)

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Peter — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:34:44 -0000

Where does it end? "This mens room urinal is sponsored by..." This is noise. For many it is annoying. For many it isn't even our first introduction to a given product or brand; believe it or not, I've heard of Apple or Coke before. The NY subways are apparently experimenting with brightly lit billboards in their tunnels - I cant wait to experience a light show offering me a product while traveling at 50mph in a crowded train.
What strikes me is that so much of this advertising seems stale. The creative behind it seems so often lame. It is akin to listening to local radio advertisements with their thin plots, the smiling voice of the narrators that never seem to connote honest emotion, the feeble attempt at humor, the cacophony of multiple voices screaming 1-800 numbers repeatedly.
Placement, repetition and eyeballs may be the tactics - audience recall is the holy grail. But at what cost - the loss of any time to reflect, appreciate or contemplate. Advertising has become the new entertainment - visual eyewash to keep us over stimulated and engaged with things (products, any product) that may pass for a moment of diversion.
And yes, it seems as if we have enough of this now and can look forward to much more in the future.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

gerardmclean — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:28:56 -0000

@Meji - 365HUSTLE.COM Hmmm.. blind to it? But if you see an ad for Apple in an airport, are you really blind to the ad or are you secretly seething because you remember the crappy times you've had with your PC this whole time and are reminded that there is a better way? Which crappy experience with your PC in an airport will finally be your tipping point to buy a MacBook? And, the next time you see an Apple ad in an airport, will you think of this blog and check in with Chris to see what he has posted or tweeted lately.. and silently swear as your PC works really hard to find that airport WiFi network, knowing that your new Macbook could have found it far easier? Hmmm.. I think you will....

When I see an Apple ad in an airport, it reminds me to check the Apple Store locations on my iPhone, just in case I get to the hotel and I may have forgotten my power cord... or the PC-only projector needs an "adaptor" I didn't bring.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

gerardmclean — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0000

@Matthew Gilbert so, should I give up the dream of getting the Rivershark TourneyCentral DogWalkBlog Plain Joe Coffee SUPER BOWL L presented by Doctorious.org? Damn, I was so close to raising the $100million in sponsorships and it had such a catchy ring to it ;-) @gerardmclean

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Meji - 365HUSTLE.COM — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:18:15 -0000

Like someone said before..You become blind to it. If I see an Apple Ad...I'm no more or less inclined to buy an Apple computer...(I really want a MacBook but I'm not sure because I'm a Windows head)

But if an Apple salesman came to my door or if I could spend a couple minutes talking to someone who knew a lot about Apple...He'd probably impart enough knowledge upon me to tip me over the edge and buy a Mac.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Matthew Gilbert — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:07:54 -0000

I was just thinking about this when I saw a recap of the "San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl." What? Can that name be any longer and any more ridiculous sounding? And why is a Credit Union sponsoring a BCS game? I thought Credit Unions were supposed to be vey fiscally conservative with their MEMBERS money (unlike Boards of large banks who blow billions of bailout money on bonuses and vacations).

As I see it, San Diego County Credit Union's decision to sponsor this BCS game (at some absurd price I can only pretend to imagine) has lowered their credibility and made me LESS likely to give them any money at all.

Of course I have now just given San Diego County Credit Union, BCS and poinsettias some potential Google traffic by posting their names here, so maybe awareness is the goal after all. And, as some have mentioned in the comments, branding is an emotional, sometimes messy game. But what good is awareness without action or ideas without implementation?

I don't understand how money invested in any kind of naming can yield any kind of trackable and reliable metrics. Keep in mind I am not claiming all forms of traditional advertising are dead, but I continue to question the value of naming rights and sponsorships of that nature.

Maybe there is an argument to be made for the name sneaking into someone's subconscious, but again that is so hard to validate. I recall some pundit commenting about how Bill Clinton's mention of "Staple's Center" at the 2000 DNC Convention made the entire investment by Staples worthwhile -- maybe they were right?

It seems to me that social media offers a much more feasible option for companies looking to connect with their current consumers and/or target demographic. Of course, social media requires listening, not screaming your brand at the top of your lungs to total strangers, so maybe companies anchored in traditional media won't be able to grasp that?

Matthew Gilbert
doctorious.org
@doctorious

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

zach braiker — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:01:38 -0000

Chris,

I think this has to do with predictable outcomes and ease by which the marketing channel scales. If your objective is sales results now, it is often easier to turn to a channel you have used before than to try a new channel. And this "social media channel," can't be turned on and off with each campaign (like traditional media), it's an on-going commitment to listening, responding, acting.

There are compelling arguments that say whether you are using social media or not, your brand is still involved. I think there is a difference between being involved in social media and depending on it as a reliable, predictable sales driver.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Josh Peters — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:53:08 -0000

This is a great question. I feel that the traditional media marketing should be used as a gateway to the social media marketing. It's never going to disappear altogether, but it can be used as a tool to get people to the conversation.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Philip Van Peborgh — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:46:31 -0000

Interesting question Chris. Can, meet worms.

Everyone who has replied above has valid points, which is probably part of the issue with quantifying somethings as subjective as persuasion. There are only a handful of objective statements about advertising. It costs money (most of the time), it doesn't do any harm (most of the time) and it allows talented creative people to be talented and creative. As to direct ROI? In my business we have gained users through a direct response to an advert. The question of whether it was worth it depends on a number of factors. Where your product/brand is in its life cycle, what metrics you are following to define success and what your client/boss thinks.

So, I can say that we have gained users from advertising and generated a direct $ cost for that acquisition. I have very little idea however whether it was the message of the ad alone or combined with other ad's, Facebook posts, bloke down the pub, Auntie Jean or a news story that made my ad so compelling that it caused an action. That's why we test and probe a combination of campaigns to see if there's synergy. It's a tedious process.

Human contact is a much better tool for gaining loyal customers. I have maintained for years that sales (direct contact) is the one of the most misunderstood parts of business. Everyone knows when they have a good sales guy, few people know how to hire a good salesman and most sales guys are universally hated by non sales guys. A necessary evil if you will.

The problem with direct sales contact is that few people really want to do it and do it well. Most sales guys would love to hide behind the marketing dept and leave them to soften up the leads so they only have to turn up and have the sale land in their lap. People tend to buy things (non-commodities) from people, not from companies. Marketing and advertising can lower many of the potential barriers to a successful sale but not all. Direct contact however costs more, requires more planning and depends upon the skill of the sales guy. Advertising requires research and the ability to write checks. It's easier.

So there's the rub and it's why I will continue to do both. Social networking is absolutely helping us to lower barriers and providing a middle ground of "soft" direct contact. It's a combination of all of these avenues that is making us grow. A good friend of mine summed it up the best. "If I'm seen to be working, advertising budgets are being sensibly spent, sales are coming in, goals are being met and my boss thinks these things are related. I'm fine."

Merry Christmas, Mr Cratchett, Phil

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

CK — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:20:02 -0000

Marketing (be it advertising, social media, or any other discipline within the broad spectrum of what is available) is, and will always remain, a discipline based on creating value for one's audience. This is as true in B2B as it is in B2C.

Thus, social media creates value when it brings a community together to do any of a number of things (share knowledge, increase expertise, find others who share a passion, solve problems, support one another, etc.). Just as giving weary travelers a way to power-up their electronics is of much value, too.

Conversely, if there's a "human interaction" at that power station that wants to sell me things, it will not be of value (that would be an outright nuisance as when I'm traveling, I don't want to be bothered with salespeople).

As for billboards? Well, it depends on the billboard's message and audience. Much of it can be noise (just as a lot of social media and broadcast advertising can be noise), so really the benchmark is not the medium, but the value factor. I don't advocate telling all companies that they need to drop their traditional (or interactive) efforts in favor or social media...I advocate a plan, that is usually integrated...that looks at all the tools available to them to pinpoint how they can add value to their audiences so that they can increase awareness, build relationships and of course increase revenues.

Now, where I think it can be tough, is when marketers of any discipline (be it social media, traditional advertising or direct marketing, etc.) advocates one particular medium over others because that's their expertise--because in most cases what is really needed is a blend of initiatives/media that is customized to every single brand. We can no sooner say that "every brand should be implementing social media programs!" just as we can no sooner say that "every brand should be implementing traditional advertising efforts!" What I think we need to do is to encourage companies to evaluate all of the options they're now afforded and assess the plan that has the highest chance of delivering for them, their audiences and those that they can do well (for instance, I know of a lot of companies that should be implementing social media, yet they don't have the resources or won't make the commitment to do them well).

A couple years ago, when I first started getting hip to the 2.0 tools, and I pushed my colleagues to learn of them, too, they asked me if I was of the mindset that other marketing tools were now dead. (Actually many still ask me this). I found it funny because I explained to them that I didn't at all find that to be the case, but I did find this to be important: if we do not know and learn of the many tools and media available to us--and then map those to our clients' objectives and audiences' needs--how do we really give clients thoughtful recommendations?

Thanks for asking some good questions. Happy holidays.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Anthony — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:14:55 -0000

Chris et al

In a high-volume lead generation business, like education, we've used or thought about nearly every vehicle to deploy a message - traditional, out-of-home, online, social, etc. In airports, everything has potential: from the security bin (Zappos did it for shoes), to providing puzzles on napkins, to projecting mazes on the floor of the long corridors. As to billboards - yes, we've recommended them to reach the business traveler for products that might resonate with the audience, e.g. advanced degrees.

As to cost of the boards - they run from several grand a month to somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k a month if you want to something prominent at LAX. Pricing, like a lot of media, depends on an estimate number of eyeballs (showings or daily equivalent circulation) that see it. Generally, boards aren't out of line with any other media pricing - display, magazines, search, etc.

Is human contact better? Are recommendations from friends more powerful? Absolutely, and media plans should be built with that as a primary objective - how do we facilitate recommendations? But they are only one part of the mix and anything that can support and round out mose's list above for high-consideration products is worth investigating. The ideas behind Duncan Watt's big-seed apply here - how do we provide a basis for conversation among thousands of people simultaneously? We start by announcing our presence; "pardon the interruption but we're in the business of solving your problem".

Could we do a $0 media marketing plan (not to say free)? Certainly, and for products where personal recommendations are paramount then this should be the strategy. The challenge we often face is scaling to deliver X number of leads over a short, defined period of time. Advertising in this context produces because the law of large numbers works in our favor, even at small conversion percentages. Could the cost of acquisition be lowered with a social approach - quite possibly, but it isn't going to be advertising and it will take time.

Re: When Will the Volume Game Turn Down?

Scott Lackey — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:55 -0000

Some observations:

1. There are a tremendous number of categorical generalizations above (i.e. advertising is broken, doesn't work, etc...but social media does). Caveat emptor. Nothing, nothing in the world of communication is that black & white.
It's a subjective jungle...especially when you get to creative.

2. I can share plenty of numerical research where there's a direct correlation between targeted "traditional" advertising delivering spikes in web visits, Google AdWord hits, awareness, and 20% increases in sales and ROI (the magic word these days). In 2008. One is for a health care company our agency works for in the greater Boston area.

3. That doesn't mean that there's not an important role for social media (SM). It's critical and it will become more so. But the best advertising is integrated (tool belt analogy in post above) and employs numerous channels. The single airport board must be evaluated within a campaign, not as a single piece of communications. Would any of you want your contributions to social media to be judged by a single blog post?

4. Advertising is really all about a conversation with the target audience:
finding them, understanding them inside and out...their hopes, their doubts, their fears. Just like all of you point to in SM

5. Right now if I was targeting a pharmaceutical campaign (the one referenced above) to 60-75 year old adults with diabetes living in the Florida & the sunbelt I wouldn't use Twitter or Facebook or YouTube. Would you? Unless I wanted to reach opinion leaders, influencers and possibly their chiildren.

6. Finally...here are some brands. I'd ask you (collectively) to decide if advertising has helped or helps them: Nike; Apple; Burger King; Pepsi; Coke; BMW; Volkswagen; Mastercard which buried Visa coming from behind with "Priceless", American Express, Barack Obama. And many, many more. Have an opposing point of view on what built these companies beside good
products/services/people and great marketing? I'm ready to listen.

7. I'm new to social media and prepared to listen & learn from all of you who know a lot more than me. Since I've been listening I've seen a lot of questioning of "traditional" advertising in favor of SM. I'm really excited by the what can be done now & in the future. OK, yes, the world is moving in that direction...but SM isn't the only alternative to "traditional advertising." Think interactive media, user produced content, sponsorships, guerrilla marketing, etc.

8. I'd very respectfully ask in 2009 that you investigate and think carefully about brands, their value, how they gained authority and what role all types of communication can play in the process including "traditional" advertising and SM. Think Integrated communications. Harmony, not opposition.

8. Happy Holidays & Happy New Year.