DISQUS

Matt Tillotson · 8 months ago

Yes, I think it's the trend. Fewer dollars. Fewer people around to work on projects. Everything has to be justified in this biz climate.

Nesh Thompson · 8 months ago

Chris, this is a great question. I think that more companies are asking for direct and indirect sales from their online marketing. Those that are looking to do this are asking how can they offer service to their customers in the best way, either to support their business model or by creating entirely new ones for the online world.

I do however have an issue with the whole branding vs. selling thing though. Delivering good service and helping customers to buy products that they want is possibly the best branding exercise one can do.

Paul Hebert · 8 months ago

First of all I'd say it is "conversations to sales" versus "conversions to sales."

Isn't all online marketing (and offline efforts for that matter) - designed to create and maintain conversations that ultimately end in some sort of "sale?" And I define sale as a value transfer - usually money for my service/product - but in could include service for service (ie: barter.) Therefore, the answer would be yes... it is all about sales.

Mike Marinelli · 8 months ago

No question. For any new project/endeavor/launch, #1 and #1A are "what is the consumer/customer/user experience going to be like"? and "how do we sell this thing"?(in no particular order)

martyglover · 8 months ago

I do believe some of us have mentione dthat along the way, :)

Irant · 8 months ago

Having worked and consulted for big and small companies, I feel as though there is, if not antagonism, then certainly tension between the marketing/PR and sales functions in many companies. There are a lot of reasons I think this tension exists, but you hint at the core of it. Any high performing sales organization is ruthlessly driven by clear metrics - mostly sales, although more and more are, as they should, thinking more about profitability and long term customer value (moving away from "drive-by selling" as I like to call it). If you want to convince yourselves how metrics-driven a sales organization is, ask a top salesperson about his/her comp plan, and they can discuss every nuance, and strategies for maximizing their variable comp.

Contrast this with the Marketing/PR organization, which in practical rather than academic terms really exists to build broad-based awareness for a product or brand, and generating "suspects" for sales. These functions are much less bottom-line oriented and metrics driven, and therefore I think there is the perception (often earned) that the marketing organization doesn't deliver the sort of measurable value the sales organization does. I think this perceived lack of accountability and metrics has led to the tension I've seen in the companies I've consulted for. I think as social media evolves, and the marketing discussion becomes more personal and intimate (as the sales conversations already tend to be), the key to success is, as you describe with Hubspot, ensuring the metrics to support causation from social media marketing to direct sales are developed will be crucial, and if they are, will break down some barriers, allowing a greater partnership between Marketing and Sales.

Which of course will lead to the next point of contention - evolving variable comp plans because of the individualized marketing (rather than sales) conversations social media increasingly enables. But I guess we'll cross that bridge another day . . .

Stuart Foster · 8 months ago

I look at marketing as a direct conduit to sales. We provide the suction power and nozzle of the vacuum. Sales comprise the internal storage and maintenance of the customer once we have them in the tube. Hopefully no one shuts off the vacumm or all the leads will fall out.

@rainesmaker · 8 months ago

Like every picture tells a story, so has every sale. Some more compelling because the sale happened from a fluke in the every day. The ones where the buyer and seller find themselves at that magical intersection not by conscious choice, but by mutual need.

I heard one such story at a presentation I made on social media last week. This person told how they forgot an appointment with a client. To express their deep apologies, this person sent the client one of those teddy bears in a basket surrounded by chocolate.

The client received the product gift which accomplished it's intended goal: to show remorse. But unbeknown to the sender, the product gift achieved an even more rarefied goal: The pleasant surprise of utility value. It just happened that the client needed an immediate re-gifting solution for another event. But they were out of time. And poof - the solution arrived. The kind of product satisfaction that has staying power.

These are the kind of product sales stories where the script writes itself. Because real life and the human condition write them. The ones that fit the social context online.

It's a worth trend Chris. Sales and marketing just has to be part of the every day magic when it happens.

Glenn

justin flitter · 8 months ago

Hi Chris
Interesting - you have me thinking
Is it conversions-to-sales or conversations to sales - No matter whether your position is to tell stories about products or service or about the company management want to track lead generation and conversation paths

Kelly Decker · 8 months ago

Chris...Yes! While we (Decker) have always had a bias toward selling (not just products & services, but ideas, initiatives, ourselves), the majority of our work recently is helping our clients to move EVERYONE (sales, tech, mktg, etc.) from a mindset of information to influence. And, I love your angle of "helping customers buy." That means we're actually focused on THEM, and not US. Just wrote a post last Friday on it: http://budurl.com/YouMe.

LoriRedding · 8 months ago

In a word, Chris. ABSOLUTELY! The question at hand is, who is going to bundle this social media stuff so that it is absolutely user friendly to the consumer....you hit the nail on the head with your insights on helping customers buy. Now, how can you do it effectively would be the next stream of conscious pursuit!

Fred H Schlegel · 8 months ago

Yes. Finally. The more an entire organization revolves around the customer relationship the better. And now, with budgets stressed, departments may be more open to splitting with past practice and trying new things.

Deborah · 8 months ago

Chris, Great post- while marketing and sales have traditionally been separate entities, I do believe the trend is that the two (especially with the help of social media) are becoming more consolidated, or at least synergistic. Through social media, online marketing is evolving to become more customer focused. Relationships are developed with more personal/intimate conversations that allow for increased brand awareness while also leading to sales.

MrGoogleAlerts · 8 months ago

The greatest number of search based visits to my blog are people looking for ideas about generating sales leads with Google Alerts. When I write about data mining within Twitter user profiles, it is again tips about finding targeted sales leads that get the more visits and retweets. Social media isn't just about amorphous ideas like "reputation." While the leading edge understands the long-term value in managing a brand online, I still find that old-fashioned sales goals drive the majority of people moving into social media from traditional marketing.

Danny Brown · 8 months ago

Is the new Thesis advert box part of the "sales through online marketing" strategy? ;-)

Mike Troiano · 8 months ago

Yes.

Companies want their marketing efforts online to move needles they already care about. Too much of the "measurement" debate around digital is about finding new needles, which misses the point.

Debralee · 8 months ago

We started using HubSpot a few months ago and lead generation tools. Not only does it notify my on our customer dashboard, but I can have them send me an email notification too. I have gotten three leads in the last week using their conversion forms/landing pages. Love it!!

Ann · 8 months ago

Yes, of course it is about sales. The problem is, there is mass push for every business in every industry to use social media and "inbound marketing" as a way to secure leads. But each industry and company's needs for social media is different. Not all business will be able to push out blog posts that win a 10k contract.
No matter what, it's the person to person interaction that makes a sale. If giving up a chunk of your time to blog and play on Twitter does not yield enough "in bound" leads to physically call - then it becomes a sore spot for a company.
As blogs and social media grows, are users becoming harder to market too? Are they starting to distrust and question the authority of blogs and corporate websites? I mean, anyone could stamp a badge on their blog and call themselves experts of in bound marketing, selling you free knowledge you can read off Google SEO/SEM page.
Companies selling services or advice on how to engage people on line need to bring substance to the table, and more then a higher Alexa ranking.

seamuswalsh · 8 months ago

Chris, You are one of the top thought leaders in using the web and social media and this is just coming to you? Who exactly has marketing and PR been aligning to all these years?
Sales is the closest to the client, the eyes and ears of "wants and needs", welcome aboard. Frankly, it's about time.

It is pretty clear that most enterprises work in silos, content strategy, marketing, sales and IT, each with their own agenda, goals and time frames. Clearly, a sea-change has to happen to get an integrated go-to-market strategy. It's no wonder why up to 19% of SG&A expense is hidden costs associated with supporting sales. Reducing those costs should be the number one goal and process optimization and integration is the only way to address it. I am glad you are now on board with that message!

Kelly Feller, Intel · 8 months ago

Hmm, I'm gonna go out on a limb and disagree with most people commenting here (which is not a surprise). While lots of executives might be pushing folks to use social media for sales purposes, I don't think the media themselves are terribly suited for dollars & cents transactions, save product review sites perhaps. Traditional marketing & sales continue to exist--and should--for good reasons; they work. Social media, I argue, is all about providing your customers opportunities to engage more deeply with your brand and thus making them more devoted. In that way they are more likely to be social about you, which is what social media is all about.

Now are we seeing sales conversions as a result of Intel's vPro Expert Center community? Yes we are. But that isn't what drives them. It's all about engagement. And the deeper a customer is engaged with your brand, the more likely they are to be a passionate brand advocate. That in turn drives more sales. But the ratio isn't so clear when tracking sales from social media, except for perhaps Dell's hot deal Twitter account (or any retail sales environment that uses social sites to push specific rebates, discounts, or sales programs).

I say if you're using a blog as a sales tool, you're probably doing it wrong. But what do I know?

Henk Jan Dulon Barre · 8 months ago

Isn't it all marketing?

I don't mind, I love marketing.

Fabulous Photo Gifts · 8 months ago

Hi Chris

I think companies would always like more sales conversions from their online media efforts - it's still business in that every marketing effort should produce a return or you don't continue it.

But how do you track it apart from upward or downward trends in sales?

Someone visits my Tumblr page (I'm currently running that as my imaginary ipod playlist with a song (or sometimes 2) a day), they then follow a link to a blog item i wrote, they follow that to my website. They like what they see but they don't need a gift straight then so they remember it and return a month later when it is someones birthday.

How do you track that? How do attribute that sale to your efforts on Tumblr?

The only way is to track trends. I wrote this or posted that and see a rise in sales etc - I can't attribute a particular sale to a particular action.

But do I need to?

I think this is the big question for companies especially in the current financial climate where companies are being forced to count every penny. The less far-sighted may well cut their online 'activity' - I hope not. It isn't quantifiable - it is necessary! Like having contact details on your website etc.

These are the times when your faith and belief in yourself and in what you are doing is right really count - perhaps a little naive, even misguided but a little faith goes a long way.

Jonathan.

Sharon Hearty · 8 months ago

Hi, in the current climate it is the setting of a price the consumer will bear for a product or service that is the focus of the value for money equation. Within companies be they large or small it is the sales function that is under pressure to perform and thus marketing is squeezed. In my view we are all in the business to sell the product or service we work on or work for - what is important is to 'create demand from the market' that is what marketing should be about and is about in my mind - but most importantly whether yuo are in sales or in marketing you need to be relevant to your target market, you need to talk to them where they have trust in you or what you have to say and this today could be social communities. we marketing and sales people are just two sides of the same coin and perspective is good and working together for the greater good is good. It is a shame that life gets in the way of this in organisations. Chris what I think you are saying is that maybe we just need to reword how we communicate things to clients in terms of our marketing efforts or if we are in organisations and we represent our side of the coin that we are big and brave enough to lead and say that sales and marketing are inextricibly linked to create demand from the market and ultimately sales.

Alex Luken · 8 months ago

Business is about making the sale. The question should ultimately be how a business values sustainable sales. The effort and cost expended to make the first time sale is more costly than maintaining the business you have, and growing sales from an established customer base.

Continual monitoring of how messaging is received is important to creating sales. Is the positioning, strategy and messaging correct? Does sales understand the value proposition? Are there mechanisms in place to provide feedback from market level sales to corporate? The elimination of unknowns only comes through listening and asking questions.

Steve · 8 months ago

Yes. "Indubitably" might be too strong a word, so just, "yes."

Michele Goetz · 8 months ago

At least in b2b tech, sales marketing has been the focus for quite some time. I think it stemmed from channel sales marketing. I remember making this shift just before the tech bubble burst when companies started to realize flashy events and advertising wasn't generating revenue.

It's a bit of the issue social media has in b2b now. Marketing efforts need to tie into sales and the conversion isn't happening yet.

Angela · 8 months ago

Great post Chris! I definitely think, especially with the economic climate, companies are demanding more sales out of ALL of their efforts. You have to be able to measure everything that you are doing and tools like Hubspot are great for that. We've also found a way to measure our marketing efforts on sites like Twitter and LinkedIn by mixing it with traditional printed media and we're finding the combination to be the best results that we've seen in a very long time!

philvanp · 8 months ago

I have absolutely no problem with using SM to generate sales, it's why we're in business. All companies need to make money and,I would guess (or even hope), that there is no part of in an organization which is not geared in some way to making or saving it. Social marketing can help reinforce and communicate many messages (company, sales, support etc.). As SM is all about community, if you engage and partake in that community, those messages are more likely to stick and find fertile ground.

My concern rests with the "silver bulletizing" of social marketing as an instant fix to sales woes. It isn't. It's a long term part of sales growth. I believe that those looking to get a quick sales boost from throwing up a fan page on Facebook are going to be disappointed.

Here's the real kicker for me. After decades of metric driven strategies here's a new fundamental component that's not difficult to understand or implement, just hard work. However, being a fundamental if you don't fully grasp or implement it into the fabric of your business you will not reap the benefit.

Thanks Chris.

Don Lafferty · 8 months ago

Marketing is about lead generation. Sales is about converting that lead to...a sale.

You can slice and dice the strategies and tactics to suit the market niche you're targeting - IF you have a good internal process and the rare combination of a sales and marketing organizations that LISTEN to each other.

Every now and then I have to remind myself that while we're in new territory with regard to the mode of communication we're using, the itches we scratch haven't changed since the first caveman went looking for his breakfast.

Tommy Rector · 8 months ago

It SHOULD be, Chris, but for most companies it isn't there yet. Many companies still are mired in the old media methods, and think online is "cute and trendy", pay lip service to it, but have no idea how to actually generate leads, let alone effectively convert them to sales. You are on the right track. Evangelize your stand.

Keith Monaghan · 8 months ago

In my limited experience companies have always expected online marketing to generate sales.
Even back in the late 90s during the dot com boom. It's just that back then the companies that were talking ROI didn't get as much attention as the ones spouting "new paradigm" and "integrated vertical portal" and the other buzzwords of the day. Same as it ever was. (And that's a good thing).

tippingptmedia · 8 months ago

I especially liked your statement, "I think content marketing and the like are lead generation-focused." When we look at marketing in the 21st century, we have to consider the multiple levels a company must use to reach an audience. We can't rely on one form of communication to satisfy the needs of all customers. For one customer, having an instant chat with a customer service representative will provide optimal satisfaction while another will only feel comfortable with a written manual in hand. The need to bring satisfaction to a customer has not changed, but companies must use a variety of ways to reach out to their clients.

Rachel Happe · 8 months ago

Hi Chris - personally I think online marketing is all about sales and that essentially it will become the same thing.

Here's why - the cost of sales has plummeted since the cost of information distribution and discovery has plummeted. It is much, much easier to do match making because people are voluntarily putting their information out there online - and obviously product and services companies have for a while. As this trend continues will see places like LinkedIn become much more of the Match.com for business. I express a need and I get matched with 20 people that can fulfill it - and either I can do the pursuing or be pursued.

It's a much better paradigm for all involved (aside from spammers) because both buyers and sellers don't have to spend the extra cycles on prospects that are not a good match. This presumes, of course that people and companies know who they are and what they want. The better companies are a defining who they are and staying true to themselves, they less friction they will have in finding customers.

JMHO :)

RegiSasso · 8 months ago

Chris,

GREAT post! I’m bringing a different perspective to this topic. I think we’re on the forefront of a major shift in how marketing and sales align and work together to engage, converse, and acquire new customers. Social Media is quickly evolving to become a transformative discipline under the big marketing umbrella. Marketing’s overarching goal it is to generate brand awareness and demand through a variety of disciplines, techniques or channels. And we all know what sales’ overarching goal is. 

As a sales pro, what I happen to be excited about is that social media is looking like a game-changer for marketing and sales organizations, no matter whether they’re in a B2C or B2B environment. Yes, it’ll take a couple more years for more complex B2B adoption, but if social media can help to free up my time to engage in more quality conversations with prospects – who want to engage with me - it naturally leads to strong and trusted relationship building – and yes, sales. Compared to the antiquated and ineffective dialing for dollars that sadly exists today in most sales organizations – particularly in the high tech industry – I can’t wait to experience the impact social media content makes to sales, salesmarketing, or even marketingsales. If social media helps me reduce my cold calling time and makes me a more effective, productive, and profitable sales pro in acquiring new business for my company, I want it now!

Keep up the great evangelism!

Vicki Rellas · 8 months ago

Great post! Many successful salespeople intuitively know that they need to tell stories about their products and services. The stories have to be visceral and eventually present the product in a way that will make a (profound) difference in the consumers life. What is getting more difficult is managing all the different outlets that are being used to disseminate the story! Hubspot not only helps with that process but allows for easy management and direct accountability.
Sales Marketing is a very appropriate naming for this!

perry maughmer · 8 months ago

This is the exact conversation I was having yesterday with an associate of mine (Nate Riggs). We were able to re-frame the discussion we were having around social media to the perspective of social media being the tool to help people sell more effectively.
Your points are completely in sync with our conversation...to power of jazz

Nick Shepheard · 8 months ago

No it's not a trend.
Marketing's job is to create demand and to speed up the buying process so any time you put "marketing" in a sentence you're beating a path for sales. Or you should be, it might come as a shock to some but Marketing's purpose has never been to spend the marketing budget.
I kind of like your two stories idea but I don't think it's as clear cut as PR doing one and Marketing taking care of the other; some of the best company stories I've heard have been from Sales, or the guy on the factory floor, or from other customers.
So, not a trend. Sales being driven out of marketing is an absolute. Always was.

Becky Blanton · 8 months ago

What if, instead of "buying" or "selling" you were all about "connecting" and making it possible for people to "find" the services, goods, products they want? That's at the base of permission marketing after all - it's about the people. That thought alone will change the way you think about your question.

Mayo · 8 months ago

I found truth in value to the effort and more so the effect of conversion from leads to actual sales...and then going the distance with the customer and maintaining a relationship that brings mutual value to the customer and the selling organization...and then repeat sales!

Keep the info flowing Chris!
Cheers,
Mayo at Proposalware dot dot dot

@abarcelos · 8 months ago

I once read an article about how EVERYONE in an organization is in sales no matter the department. If you focus on the fact that it's all about happy customers (internal and external), the bottom line, which is equally as important, naturally progresses. Sounds simple enough but way too many organizations still have an us against them within the company where sales blames support and vice versa. In the end, the point is missed and customers suffer.

SteveAverill · 8 months ago

When I was in Sales, my personal mantra was "Don't sell, make sales". PR, Marketing and Social Media all contribute to the process of a closed deal. Can you create the environment and circumstances internally and externally where sales are made? You can if everyone sees themselves as part of the sales process, as on that assembly line, the end product being a deal. Marketing PR HR Customer Service, that guy hired to do Social Media, all dedicated to making sales.

billhanifin · 8 months ago

Everyone I have been hearing from is asking about the business impact of their investment in social media, tools, brand building - all of it. There is more emphasis on these questions from more traditional marketers (might there be a loyalty marketing generation gap? here) but in the end, everyone is in business to create sales. Sounds basic, but it's true.

Christine Fife · 8 months ago

No, I don't think it is a trend, I think it is just normal business. The point of being in business is to sell something. Marketing and sales practices evolved out of the desire to sell more, always with the bottom line of sell more but spend less to do it.

Because this is the case, I don't think it is right to call it a "trend."

Unfortunately, many companies continue to pursue a mass advertising attack (fill the funnel, knowing sales win ratios will be low). Has any recent study been done to illustrate which approach is reaping more rewards?

Personally, I agree with Paul Hebert 's comment: it's "conversations" to sales. The change that some companies are starting to make is that conversations don't have to wait to begin with a sales person and a consumer. Companies can participate in the market conversation much earlier as part of their brand/product awareness stage so long as they don't look at it as a new place (online social networking areas) to paste the same old advertisement bullets (that doesn't add to the conversation, that adds to the noise.)

Tracy Marlowe · 8 months ago

I definitely think that it's a growing trend. Not with all companies. But more and more are seeing the light everyday.

I own a small advertising agency and have several clients in the real estate realm. In the "olden days" (okay, two years ago), we could put branding ads out in consumer publications and the leads would come rolling in. Now days, with the obvious challenges in that market, it's just not enough to get their phone to ring. It's not enough that people in their market perceive their development as the "hottest development around" if the sales aren't happening. They began demanding, as they well should, that we be able to show them how every dollar they spend directly translates into sales.

Enter, content marketing. I am a Hubspot customer and loyalist and am currently using it to help my customers actually track the success of their content marketing campaigns. It's been awesome. And eye opening.

Yes, at first it was a challenge for me to evolve from years and years as a traditional branding advertiser. And I still believe firmly in branding. The channels, methodologies and strategies for conveying well developed brands have just changed with the times.

And if we as marketers don't change and begin to adapt to a more content based sales and marketing model to better serve our clients then I honestly think we'll be relics before long.

Keith Wiegold · 8 months ago

Well done, Chris: your thoughtful questions are ones many marketers are asking themselves (though not as eloquently).

I believe that both questions (“what if every aspect of our efforts was dedicated to helping people sell?” and “what if every aspect of our efforts was dedicated to helping customers buy?” ) can be addressed with another question: "what if every aspect of our efforts was dedicated to helping our customers.....PERIOD."

The trust created by a company when truly, truly helping its customers address higher-level needs (than simply buying a product) via solving their problems (through education, information, inspiration, entertainment) is what content marketing is all about.

Yes, it sells -- but in a customer-centric, problem-solving way. Yes, it helps customers buy -- but above and beyond the utilitarian-based benefits of the product service.

Content marketing can be about SO much more than a "wide-area sales funnel" (actually, I always felt that's what traditional advertising did...in its mass-market, shotgun blast, interruptive way). Done strategically, content marketing can address ALL stages of the customer journey with a company/brand, from suspect to prospect to warm lead to customer....BUT THEN also beyond -- repeat customer to loyalist to advocate, enhancing lifetime value.

(My full disclosure: I've created a strategic framework that creates such a roadmap for content to play thoughout all stages, with objective-based measurement metrics which indeed helps marketers "see every effort’s paths back to sales.")

I guess the question isn't that "Are companies asking for more sales out of their online marketing efforts?" (they should), but that "Are customers asking for more out of companies' online efforts?" (they are)...and THAT'S where strategic content marketing provides the solution -- over the lifetime.

Keith Wiegold
Chief Content Evangelist
Nutlug Content Marketing

James Young · 7 months ago

Maybe not sales exactly, but company strategy, yes. Granted, the strategy of the company is designed to maximize sales, so they ultimatley be one and the same. But, I've seen too much marketing muscle wasted on efforts that don't tie to strategy.

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birkin · 4 months ago

I agree with Paul Hebert 's comment: it's "conversations" to sales.

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