As both a PR pro and consumer, I feel that a company needs to be the best to deserve the loyalty. If you, as an Apple consumer, leave Apple for a different phone, that means Apple wasn't doing enough to retain you. They need to have better marketing and better products so you won't be tempted to leave. Same with any product - as big as cars and as small as snacks.
addytseng
· 1 month ago
Exactly. A lot of times we are "loyal" only because the cost of switching is too high....Inertia is one. We have no time to go learn another programming language, another device, another protocol. Companies are also making it hard for us to switch - contracts, penalties, etc. etc. We "stick around" also because inherently we don't like change. All of that is not brand loyalty. More like imprisonment? lol
mbowlersr
· 1 month ago
Chris, you know we make those babies right here in Delta Township, Lansing Michigan. The most modern technology plant in the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZx-p-4chEc
Tracey Halvorsen
· 1 month ago
Brand loyalty is very important to me, and when I become loyal to a brand or business, it is because I got excellent customer service and a job well done (or product well built). I would even say that I will put up with less of an excellent job if the customer service is there. As soon as customer service begins to falter, I look for a new brand to give my loyalty to. It's a gift, that can be taken away and given to someone new whenever you choose. More companies should take pride in brand loyalty, and train their staff to take the issue very very seriously.
To your point Chris, about loading Windows and if that makes you less loyal to Apple, it brings up the fact that as consumers, we will always check out the competition or different options as a point of due diligence or curiosity. If Windows gives you the same excellent experience the MacOS does, or if you call for support, their support team walks you through your problem in a friendly and successful manner, you may actually consider moving more of your machines to be Windows friendly. However, I suspect your "experience" using the alternatives is what will ultimately drive you back to the brand you are loyal to. So, once you have a loyal customer they are yours to lose. If you don't have that customer yet, you better bring your A game, every time.
TheOnlineMom
· 1 month ago
I think the economy also plays a role in consumer loyalty. In the economic environment of this past year I noticed more people willing to switch brands in favor of a better deal and showing no regrets. Brands need to be tuned into what's no. 1 in their consumers minds in order to retain loyalty.
alliworthington
· 1 month ago
"I don’t feel that my loyalty is what’s for sale when I work with organizations. I maintain their privacy. I perform with their best interests in mind when under their hire. I don’t divulge competitive data."
Perfectly said.
denvan
· 1 month ago
Brand loyalty is a difficult game because it seems so much like regular human loyalty, but it clearly isn't. I may be a lifelong Coke drinker, and I may FEEL disloyal to Coke by having the occasional Pepsi, but in the end, have I really crossed any moral / ethical boundary by doing so - as if I had betrayed a real human friend or worse, been disloyal to my spouse or family? Of course not.
But on the other hand, I think the responsibility of brands to live up to the expectations they've built up in their customers is moral / ethical on a much deeper level.
Interested to see how the conversation unfolds here.
Linda
· 1 month ago
I'm just a consumer, and I don't have any brand loyalty (other than to Kimberly-Clark, which my great-great grandfather co-founded). Price and quality always comes first. Things are too expensive to spend more money to buy a particular brand that costs more than the others. I look for what's on sale and buy a lot of store brands. The only exceptions I make are when the cheapest isn't very good or the other brands don't meet what I need (like laundry detergent--I buy one particular brand there because they have it clearly marked for allergies while other brands are confusing). But even if I have a coupon and a store sale, and the price is still more than the store brand, I'll get the store brand.
John Mills
· 1 month ago
Chris,
My experience is that, as an agency, a brand will be "loyal" to you as long as you provide a value of service that meets or exceeds their expectations. As consumers, it's similar in that we are "loyal" to brands that do the same. So I guess "loyalty" really comes down to consistency of providing a service that improves our lives.
Brand loyalty, as it's historically defined, is only relevant to sports teams. And I'm a Redskins fans so it's also associated with pain.
CT Moore
· 1 month ago
I think that Brand Loyalty is something that pertains to consumers more than marketers/PR-types. For the former, that's what a conflict of interest is all about: you can't ethically work with two at the same time, but having worked for one in the past makes you that much more of a potential candidate when you're pitching. It means you already understand distribution channels and potential buzz outlets, as well as what works in each of those.
Of course, if you're supplier, things are different. If I sell pop cans to Coke, there's no reason I shouldn't sell them to Pepsi. Don't you think?
As for consumers, I think that brand loyalty is about coming back. It doesn't mean that you don't test the waters. It means you come back even when you do.
Finally, as far as your concerned Chris, you're an exception. You're a super-user and a marketer and a communicator. You would be that much less effective as a professional if you didn't understand what Droid and Windows were doing, because many of the consumers you target will use these technologies - rather than the ones of your primary choice.
angeladenby
· 1 month ago
If a product makes me happy or comfortable, I will be loyal for one simple reason... because so few products achieve this. So many times, products and services don't live up to their promises, hype... "award-winning customer service". They all state it, but how many of them actually answer the phone right away when you call?
One product comes to mind that you've mentioned in your article, the iPhone. I feel strongly that the iPhone made my life better, more efficient, simpler. Although new phones may be enticing as I see commercials and read Twitter reviews, I am so happy with my iPhone that I have no intentions of parting with it (until I'm ready for a new model). I love it that much... and yes, I am typing this on a MacBook Pro, and I love Apple's customer service department.
As for your Coke/Pepsi issue, you're right... case studies are all a buzz for a reason. If you're working with one cola company, you might as well be working with them all. The company can keep sensitive information from you if they need to. As a consultant, they can also have you sign confidentiality agreements, which I'm certain they do. Aside from all of that, you're being hired for your experience within the industry and nothing else. There's plenty of room in our country for healthy competition, and as long as each company provides the consumer with what they want and need, what's to fear? We all succeed in the end.
You have the right idea. Since you're keeping track, I started out in design and transitioned into marketing for awhile. I now focus on social networking for business development, and I'm a big fan of your work. Keep it up.
You raise an interesting question. My take would be that you're either a Coke man or a Pepsi man in our business - on first blush. But, if both brands want to pick from the best help they can get, can they afford to hold to the old ways? Seems you have crossed the threshold of a new time in the biz. You have make yourself valuable enough to be seen as a resource by both brands. Assuming you disclose your competitive background each time out, then they have all the info they need. Needless to say, you can't touch similar projects in close time proximity because it would be impossible to not use knowledge gained in one to inform the other. Can get tricky on the ethics front.
Chris Brogan
· 1 month ago
Ethics, as they were defined by my professor in college: 1.) do you want to tell your mom about it? 2.) Do you want to read about it on the front of the Boston Globe? If yes to both, it's more likely to be ethical.
annewalshcoach
· 1 month ago
Hm, can't agree with you there. Suppose you have to tell someone that you don't want to /can't work with them any more or I have to make people redundant? And this is a decision I have made after much soulsearching and heartache and know it's the right thing to do....do I want to tell my mother? Er, not particularly. Do I want to read about it on the front of the paper...er, no either because they probably won't reflect the entire reality..
addytseng
· 1 month ago
I would find this situation the most challenging: Consulting for a competitor (say Coke) after I've consulted for Pepsi. I will have learned from the Pepsi experience, invariably adding to my wisdom. Why would I pretend I'm only as wise as I was pre_Pepsi?
How DO you do it, Chris? How DO you keep it straight so you don't overlap? If you recommended a truly million $ strategy to one, do you not recommend the same strategy to the second company? Or do you modify it a little? You KNOW it worked, so if you did not recommend it, you may be withholding something the second company needed. While this is just a theoretical/academic discussion for me right now, it does perplex me...
Shannon Ehlers
· 1 month ago
I think that maybe we can look at this in a different way. It isn't uncommon for both Coke and Pepsi to advertise using similar media (billboards, for instance), perhaps even the same media property (Superbowl commercials spring to mind). Is this more ethical than Coke and Pepsi both implementing their social strategies using the "medium" of Chris?
Jayasimhan M
· 1 month ago
I think thats perfectly fine to consult two competitors as long as you deliver the results they look for. Consulting companies like Mckinsey and their likes do it all the time. In fact some clients expect you to bring your experience/best-practices from other clients.
addytseng
· 1 month ago
Yes, how do they do it?
Lindsay Davies
· 1 month ago
I think brand loyalty from a consumer's perspective is about feelings. There are different levels of brand loyalty in the eyes of the company but these which would feel the same to an individual consumer if they felt an affinity to the brand. Regardless of how frequently they used or bought the brand, or if sometimes they swapped between several brands in the same category, if a person has a favourite brand they will feel loyal over time. Loyalty can come in the form of spend or speech - both of benefit to the company who owns the brand but at different levels. The company feels the difference in brand loyalty levels more than the consumer.
Barry A. Martin
· 1 month ago
Hey Chris, loyalty is something (smart) brands are in the business of earning. Brands with solid products have a shot at a solid relationship, but in a culture where 50% of marriages end in divorce, I don't think they should expect too much.
I think the best shot for brands of the future is to create community–feeling like part of a community is stronger than the connection most brands can muster.
A case study I use when presenting is DPreview.com, the camera review site. One day I noticed they had a developer's blog. At first, I wondered why a photography magazine needed a developer's blog. Then I realized that though DP Review puts 12 pages of useful information on every new camera out, the readers sometimes post over 100 comments. The public may not get any ad revenue, but they're certainly partners in making the site a top resource.
thomasknoll
· 1 month ago
Thank you for bringing this topic up, and not being afraid to take it head on, Chris. I can actually answer this question with-out hesitation because earlier today I realized I only have one defining metric: Does this improve a real-life relationship?. Everything I am working on right now is customer focused. My special little corner of the world is to improve the relationship between companies and their customers. So, I could even see working for Pepsi and Coca-cola at the same time (yes, I know, not likely). But, it would be possible to help two competing companies simultaneously learn to better love their customer.
I wide-eyed-and-busy-tailed believe that the companies who will succeed through this next phase, will not focus on the competition, and will instead focus on developing a strong relationship with their customers, and help their customers become evangelists. In many ways their own fear is their only competition.
Bruce Nunnally
· 1 month ago
I think to help as an Adviser you HAVE to be familiar with the Brand you are advising, AND with their main competitors in the market. Part of what you bring is an objective view of what the Brand is doing right / well and what is not working and needs to be fixed right? On the other hand, I think both you and the Brand Team need to actually USE the Brand's product or service once you are engaged as an Adviser in order to relate to and understand consumer issues. Finally, especially in a line that depends on repeat sales, it is an important part of the assignment to 'get' what drives repeat sales.
markpmsg
· 1 month ago
Chris: I think you have raised two different questions, and while they do interrelate, I believe them to be a bit separate as well.
1. How does your brand loyalty work as a consumer? For consumers, brand loyalty is rarely a 100%-0% thing. It is more of a continuum, with the loyal brands having an increasing share of wallet (and of attention). It is perfectly normal that you would want to check out a Droid phone -- it makes you normal, not a traitor to a brand. As we as marketers increase our relationships with our core consumers, we can expect greater mindshare, but never should we expect our consumers to put blinders on.
2. How do you interact with different clients in a business. As the leader of a consulting firm, we have had some overlaps of clients, but always in different areas. Even then, we try to keep the overlaps to a minimum - it just makes life easier. I follow the test that, if I were to hear about it on the news, would I be embarrassed in front of my daughter? That tends to keep me on the straight and narrow.
Walter Schwabe
· 1 month ago
Chris, if you haven't read it, you might like "lovemarks" by Kevin Roberts, CEO Saatchi and Saatchi. I agree with Roberts that despite being multi-brand users, we do have our favorites (lovemarks) and that does have financial and brand awareness implications for those brands. Being enticed to spend a lot of money on Win7 when you're a dedicated Apple enthusiast suggests that the MS marketing team has managed to enter your psyche enough to persuade a purchase from you. Of course, that's the name of the game. Apple should always be concerned about that because it opens the door to not returning and spending money with them. Personally I don't see that happening but only you can answer that. I've been a PC owner forever, still own two, then I bought the new Macbook, I'm finished with Microsoft. I was waiting until the gap between the two platforms narrowed to allow the transition to happen easily. I can't stand the MS approach to software development and the 3 million versions of their OS. I have NO interest in even testing Win7 even if it cooks me breakfast and I believe there are many more like me. The Apple "trust me" commercial says it all. I'm just loyal to Apple now I'm actively looking for ways to helps others convert too. I'm an unofficial Apple evangelist.
GaryBloomer
· 1 month ago
Chris, This is a great question.
Do choices or necessities of action make any single consumer less loyal? No, I don't think they do. In fact, I think they give the consumer incredible power. They tell the manufacturer "For this task, I need to use this brand and its equity. For that task or function, I need to switch gears, switch personas and use another brand."
Contrary? Sure. But maybe this will help to keep brand agents on their toes and make them see that brands, in order to survive and thrive, have to be more plastic, more flexible.
I think sometimes, brand loyalty needs to be portable; it needs to be easily transfered from one brand to another in order to get a specific job or a task done.
Does that make the person with the loyalty any less loyal? No. Because at their heart, brands are just as much about solving problems as they are about affiliations. Often, those affiliations have to adapt in order to accomplish a certain goal or task in a certain way, or within a certain set of deadlines or constraints.
I think the whole notion of loyalty only kicks in properly when the product, the message of the marketing, and the use the product is being put to combine to form a new whole—whether that's a new set of values, feelings, and perceptions. Or something other, something different.
What creates real brand loyalty? I think it's a combination of things, but the most important, at least to my mind, are: the tone or undercurrent of the product form, function, and message; the quality of the product and the task it permits me to carry out or the statement it makes about me, and the liberation the two bring to my life as the person taking on the loyalty.
Hugh Briss
· 1 month ago
To be honest, I think it would be nearly impossible to work for Coke and Pepsi, or Apple and Microsoft, or any major competitor without it being a conflict of interest.
Chris Brogan
· 1 month ago
At the same time, yes. At different times and on different projects?
Nick Shepheard
· 1 month ago
I think the more "inside" you were working then the greater "outside" you should be before taking on work for a competitor.
So, if you sold them a bolt-on you can sell to their competitor the same day, but if you helped define objectives and set strategy, six to nine months separation is minimum.
I think this is as much pragmatic as ethical; I don't want to compromise myself (when I look my mom, the mirror or the Boston Globe in the face) AND I don't want any current or future customer to compromise how they deal with me (when it's all about honesty) because of where I might turn up next.
davelutz
· 1 month ago
Chris and Nick, I deal with this quite frequently w/ my business consulting for the meeting & event industry. Some clients want me to sign a non-compete to not work with a defined list of primary competitors. I'm not opposed to that, but will scale the non-competition period to the size of the project. All clients want and expect complete confidentiality of the information shared.
Once you develop a trusting relationship and deliver quality results, I believe you can have a conversation with client #1 about prospect #2 that happens to be their competitor. If you've earned the deep trust of client #1 and disclose the opportunity to all parties, I find that most projects can move forward and waive the non-compete.
Hugh Briss
· 1 month ago
Good question but I'm still going to have to say yes. We're all human and no matter how ethical we consider ourselves, we're bound to learn inside information from one company that could help the other at some point, and if it's our job to suggest a marketing approach, how can we do our job effectively if we ignore that information?
Look at the Droid vs. iPhone ads. They're almost vicious. If the agency handling the Droid account had previously worked for Apple, they'd probably have a good idea what marketing technique could be effectively used against them. If they didn't offer those suggestions because of their ethics, even though they knew they'd be valuable, they wouldn't be doing the job they were being paid to do and thus doing a disservice to the company that was currently paying them.
Hugh Briss
· 1 month ago
For example: Let's say that I had worked for Apple and I knew that they considered the fact that their battery couldn't be swapped out for a freshly charged one (because it was internal) to be their Achilles heal and they knew that was something their advertisers would use against them so it was my job to find ways to make it a non issue.
Now, let's say that 6 months later I'm no longer working for Apple and Motorola hires me to help them market the Droid. If they know I worked for Apple before I'm screwed, because the first thing they're going to ask me is how I can develop a marketing plan that will exploit Apple's Achilles heal. Obviously, if I know what we came up with to make that seem like a non issue while working for Apple, I'm going to know exactly how to make it an issue.
addytseng
· 1 month ago
Right on. I guess companies "steal" competitors' employees all the time, intentionally or unintentionally. Doesn't that level the playing field over time? Isn't that good for consumers because they get the same "features" that matter? Thus shifting the ultimate test to "customer relationships" maybe?
Hugh Briss
· 1 month ago
Interesting point and you may be right. However, as a marketing professional I'd personally have a hard time using that to justify conflicts of interest and have just always chosen to never work for a competitor on any level, even if it's just to keep them comfortable.
Now, there is a time limit and I wouldn't decline an offer from a competitor of a previous company I'd worked for if a reasonable time had elapsed. Of course with large companies it's usually a moot point because they expect us to sign a non compete.
addytseng
· 1 month ago
In reality I would probably avoid working/consulting for competing companies in the same area. I see myself as a integral package. I give my all. I cannot fence off one piece of knowledge or wisdom to be off limits....
Hm.. even as I type this, I take that back. We can, and we've all done that before. E.g. we've all successfully told ourselves not to let any biases or previous knowledge of a person/event affect our decision. We can temporarily fence off something that we know about so that it does not affect our decisions/conduct.
However, we have to keep reminding ourselves. It's easy to slip. And who can constantly track what goes on in the deep recesses of our minds? Not me! That's why I think Honesty is the best policy. It takes too much work to keep track of lies. It would drive me crazy!
Marchell Mascheck
· 1 month ago
As a consumer, I am very loyal--until my needs change and the brand doesn't or the brand's customer service loses sight of the serve part of service. So I reluctantly change brands and remain loyal. I follow the WIFM when spending my money and I don't apologize for it. I love Coke products, but have purchased Pepsi products? Yes.
As a REALTOR, I strive for the highest level of customer service possible. Do I achieve this? Yes. My clients that have turned into my advocates prove that. Have I failed? Yes. I lose fewer and fewer clients as times goes on, because I continually earn trust and provide the best customer service. If a past client uses another agent, I usually already expected it. Either because they are not loyal to anyone or any brand, or they simply the opportunistic type that uses the services of the agent available to them at the time of their emotional need.
By the way, as a REALTOR I am held to a high level of ethics and all information is deemed confidential. That doesn't mean that I don't use the experience from a previous transaction to guide my actions in the future. I'm not revealing anything of the past client to the new client, nor am I betraying any trust built between us.
Sorry to get so long winded here, but there is a great deal of intertwining between trust and loyalty. I want to continue to do good work as you encourage us to do.
Karthik
· 1 month ago
From a consumer/ customer stand point, I'll choose and change my brand as I wish - its my money and I have my own best interest in mind. However, when you're working for a brand and there's an offer from a competing brand to do some work for them in a similar space, it simply boils down to your ability to convince both yourself and the first brand that there's no clash of interest.
For brands, customer loyalty is only something they can aspire and wish for - not buy/ own. We have a classic phrase from Bhagavad Geeta, 'Do your duty, do not expect returns'....that pretty much sums up the brand's position here - all they can do is make a great product or deliver excellent service - it's up to the customers to judge how good it was and decide on the standards vis-a-vis competition!
addytseng
· 1 month ago
I agree that as consumers we are not obligated to be "loyal". Companies cannot shame us if we switch brands. If we somehow FEEL disloyal by checking out other brands, then it's all in our heads. We mature, we change, our needs change as we move through stages of life. Why do we feel guilty checking out new ideas, concepts and products?
I also like the quote "Do your duty, do not expect returns". I can easily and freely recommend the same insight/strategy to 2 competing companies,... because neither are paying me. It's up to them to figure out how to implement. Once I accept payment...that's when it gets perplexing.
LOL What that tells me is I can never be a paid consultant. I love sharing ideas and brainwaves. I just cannot get paid. :-)
leewatters
· 1 month ago
I think brand loyalty can run out, as one brand does not keep up with features or benefits of other brands. I was a windows mobile user for years until the android came out. Microsoft dropped the ball on keeping the product up to date with the user's needs, in this case me as the user. So I jumped brands. One can be happy with a brand up to a point where it makes sense to change because of need or wants. In the case of car manufactures, the American brands have all admitted this year that they were building junk. All 3 of them had ads running this past few months saying how their products now are as good as Toyota or Honda. It may be time to come back to the American car brands, I think for the first time in decades they are starting to listen to the consumer.
Dave Doolin
· 1 month ago
That's crazy that you're bridging top management at GM to consumers, in one step. Crazy. Usually there's umpteen and a half different levels of management in between.
Hallicious
· 1 month ago
I guess I'm just way into product requirements to think that brands even matter across segments. There are just too many variables. For example, large brands have multiple product teams with varying goals and levels of aptitude. Also, brands in a particular industry don't necessarily sell products in every category.
In my mind, the brand does itself justice by providing superior products at competitive prices across the board. But that's really tough to do...
muiomuio
· 1 month ago
Personally I believe experiencing new and different is always a plus. For years I've bought a mobile phone from the same company, maybe 7 or 8 and never complained but now that I see the new interfaces, new capabilities and awesome prices other brands are using I am compelled to try their products. I don't have anything wrong to say about the current brand just feel the need for something new and different. Does that make me less loyal, apart from the fact of buying something from the competitor.
annewalshcoach
· 1 month ago
Brand loyalty? I think it works both ways. I am very loyal to my broadband provider (Irish - u.tv) because their customer service is excellent and when I had a problem the supervisor rang me back the next day to check I was OK. (That NEVER happened with my previou provider who are now doing the business equivalent of flowers, chocolates and dinner to get me back. I on the other hand feel a strong antipathy to Apple (no hatemail please...there are a few of us out there :-)). Why? Because I had more technical problems with Apple Macs than I ever had with PC's, because they are supposed to be pretty...and I don't see why I should pay a "pretty premium" when my purple Dell is gorgeous. Because I think iPods are all over priced compared to my beloved Creative Zen MP3 player. Well, I could go on...but I have very few brand loyalties...I look at their substance...
LucieS
· 1 month ago
Personally I find that I am less bothered about brand loyalty - I go where the best service is and I change frequently depending on my own needs - than I am about bad customer service. I am more likely loyally to avoid a certain brand based on a negative experience than I am loyally to stay with a brand based on a positive experience. I think the problem is mainly larger brands - the likes of Pepsi, Coke, Apple, Microsoft - because inherently I just don't believe such huge corporations can really care about me, or that my loyalty makes a difference to them when I'm so far down the chain as one, lone, individual purchaser.
On the second issue, I'd agree that you can absolutely balance working for multiple competitors (at different times) and that you would damage your own business if you were to limit which brands you worked for based on previous relationships. Surely in the long run being associated with Pepsi and never Coke, or Apple but never Microsoft, means you're seen to be affiliated rather than impartial, which affects perceptions of you and your work for the future.
elliebecker
· 1 month ago
This is certainly an important topic and thanks for bringing it up! Here are a few thoughts. The love of my life is a psychotherapist who would rather sacrifice a limb than divulge the confidences of someone who is in therapy with him. Likewise, over the years I have often said to new clients that in order to serve them well as a PR professional, they need to think of me as their shrink, revealing the good, the bad and the ugly, and that part of the deal is full confidentiality. Both of these circumstances impose a ral burden on the professional to treat privileged information as sacrosanct.
That said, regardless of personal ethics, for a variety of reasons I've always made it a practice not to work with direct competitors at the same time or to develop a vertical practice. There is that good old 'appearance of conflict' to deal with. For example -- if I have two medical products clients and an opportunity for one to comment for a New York Times story, who gets the coverage? In many instances, companies simply won't hire me if I'm also working with a competitor - or have in the recent past. Beyond PR, I have friends in the market research world who also face this dilemma.
I know that many companies have built single industry agencies, particularly in healthcare/pharma and financial services and it would be interesting to have their weigh-in on this meaty issue.
I can see working with direct competitors in large enterprises where working within one segment of the business for one of them, customer service for example, doesn't conflict with work in a segment of the other, maybe sales & marketing. But all parameters of confidentiality and boundaries would have to be set forth and clearly understood/agreed to by the parties in advance.
Daniel_Honigman
· 1 month ago
A Caddy, eh? I've never owned a car in my life, but I've often thought about getting a Cadillac (client).
I like your style, Chris.
Dorethia
· 1 month ago
I'm loyal as long as a product or service works for me and the price is agreeable. I recently stopped purchasing my favorite healthy cereal brand because the price has just gone beyond reason. I'm loyal to my cleaners although the price is a little higher because they do last minute fixes for me and have great customer service.
As for cars, I'm in Detroit and GM is my brand! So, yes I'm definitely brand loyal there. It's all I've ever driven, except for my first car - a big hunk o' metal - Ford Fairmont!
Ian M Rountree
· 1 month ago
It's not easy to tell someone the truth abour how you percieve their actions; it's even harder to hear that truth. One thing I don't percieve many big brands getting is that loyalty comes down to benefit for the consumer, and that consumers, having so many choices, are free to choose any aspect of the company's business to pick on to say "This reduces your benefits to me" and companies in general have only the response of "But our product is useful, right?"
It's a pretty weak bargaining position to be in. Vendors (Coke, GM, etc) are the product in hand, and they're speaking to a lot of the wrong people, sending the wrong messages. I work in electronics retail, currently - I'm a walking Elbow, carrying ptoducts-in-hand - and I've never felt much support for my place from vendors. I may be loyal to some brands as a consumer, but spending a lot of my time behind the counter fielding questions on behalf of these vendors, my personal loyalty can't become an issue in the same way yours can't; it's bad for my business, and unethical of me to impose my opinions on my clients.
Vendors are in an odd place. They can speak to everyone, but they never seem to have anything meaningful to say, it's all fluff. Even the training we recieve is, in general, a PR pitch - which is useless to Walking Elbows willing to be the final face of their products. Some cohesion of message would be nice, for once.
Bill Gemmell @simplifywithus
· 1 month ago
Without doubt companies need to appreciate the emotional edge of branding and forget the one-size fits all approach. You have emotional ties with GM and the cars you have "loved". Each car will bring back an emotional connect. Why shouldn't we have different emotional connects for competing companies? I use Virgin Mobile for voice calls and Vodafone for data. Why? Because Virgin as ever meet my custoemr service needs whilst Vodafone has a better signal coverage in turn giving me better access to the net.
Why not competitors? They claim to be different with unique USP's so your are doing work for two different companies.
ggruber66
· 1 month ago
Chris, 2 different kinds of comments on this post.
First, I think that in most cases it's perfectly acceptable to work with competitors in a given space, as long as you don't cross any lines with respect to disclosing one client's intellectual property to another. The truth is that clients want domain expertise, they just don't want to know where you got it. At my last company we provided software product development services to 2 of the top 5 ERP companies and 3 of the top 5 networked storage companies. By instituting the right governance procedures we were able to provide great services to all our clients while continuing to build our knowledge around the technology, develop a deeper understanding of their businesses and bring a point of view on how to creatively solve underlying business problems, which is where the real business value is created. It's called practice building and, as a much smarter guy than me, you know it's done all the time. Clients know it too, all though they may hem and haw during the process, but more often than not, it's to negotiate some advantage for themselves.
The only time I feel it's crossing the line is if you use your knowledge of specific program(s) you just instituted at one client and then go to the competitor and help them build a defensive strategy or stage a counter-offensive (basically becoming an arms salesman who supplies opposing armies).
The other point I wanted to make was in regards to the Caddy CTS. I just recently went through the car-buying process and ended up with the Infiniti G37. I looked at the CTS. Thought it was beautiful inside and out. I was American too. I really wanted to like it. But then I drove it. For some reason it just fell flat for me...and it was 10% more expensive than other cars I looked at, which for a company that should be driving for share and going through a structured reorganization was seemed a poor strategy. Additionally, while there was a lot of consternation about GM & Chrysler paring back their dealers, they should have focused on revamping them. I went to 2 Caddy dealers and both felt no different than any Hyundai, Honda or Ford dealer. For a luxury car brand, the experience was pretty low budget and was another factor in my decision.
MotorMouths
· 1 month ago
Chris, can't really go wrong with the CTS. It's one of the best reviewed vehicles on the market right now. Averages an 86 in published reviews:
We have a client in the retail space (we're brand developers) who openly acknowledges how his clients buy his brand and the competition's. He is not at all bothered if buyers are loyal to more than his brand. But were I to work for both at the same time? Hell no. That would not go.
I think the emotions behind the issue -- vulnerability, privacy, weakness, ambition -- are stronger than the logic you'd like to see in play.
-- Axle Davids @1day1brand
p.s. I fell in love with the CTS after the Matrix Reloaded. Thanks for adding another fave pop-culture reference to rationalize my desire for a car I don't need at all.
Clint
· 1 month ago
Chris, what am I missing here with the your awe over the Cadillac CTS? Terrible gas mileage and sub par tech accessories are all I can see. There are 50 cars out there with 30+ mpg and all sorts of fun doo dads that a techie would love. The CTS is for your Grandpa who just started emailing.
Clint
· 1 month ago
Chris, what am I missing here with the your awe over the Cadillac CTS? Terrible gas mileage and sub par tech accessories are all I can see. There are 50 cars out there with 30+ mpg and all sorts of fun doo dads that a techie would love. The CTS is for your Grandpa who just started emailing.
Christine Green
· 1 month ago
Chris, I'm due for a new cell phone made in this century. Thinking Blackberry Bold or iPhone, but leaning toward Blackberry for the physical keyboard and better email for multiple addresses. Now thinking seriously about the Droid. I hope you will review it if you get it. Thanks!
fabulousphotogifts
· 1 month ago
Hi Chris
When I started reading this post, I thought it was like playing chess against yourself - even though you move the board around, you're still thinking of your next move as the 'other side'.
However, by the end, I think it boils down to doing the best job you can with the materials your given (web design).
Ultimately, the newer job will benefit from the shared learning you learnt on previous jobs - so there's a good case for re-visiting old clients and offering them an 'update' based on what you learnt on the latest job, without breaking any confidentiality of course.
Thanks for putting a moral dilemma down in writing. Jonathan.
neilkevin
· 1 month ago
Such a nice post! There is no doubt that focus is a key driver of business growth and historically almost all multi-brand groups have developed from one core brand that often will remain the major contributor to profitability for the group. In order to determine if multiple brands is a trend, or was just considered a good idea at the time but in hindsight may be a disaster, it is worthwhile to consider why a company may consider operating another brand.
What I find fascinating is the gap that still exists between users and the technology..and I wonder if technology has to become really complex underneath to offer a really smooth seamless user experience. Curious about the implications of that for both the users and developers. Multivitamins
All Comments
A lot of times we are "loyal" only because the cost of switching is too high....Inertia is one. We have no time to go learn another programming language, another device, another protocol.
Companies are also making it hard for us to switch - contracts, penalties, etc. etc.
We "stick around" also because inherently we don't like change.
All of that is not brand loyalty. More like imprisonment? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZx-p-4chEc
To your point Chris, about loading Windows and if that makes you less loyal to Apple, it brings up the fact that as consumers, we will always check out the competition or different options as a point of due diligence or curiosity. If Windows gives you the same excellent experience the MacOS does, or if you call for support, their support team walks you through your problem in a friendly and successful manner, you may actually consider moving more of your machines to be Windows friendly. However, I suspect your "experience" using the alternatives is what will ultimately drive you back to the brand you are loyal to. So, once you have a loyal customer they are yours to lose. If you don't have that customer yet, you better bring your A game, every time.
Perfectly said.
But on the other hand, I think the responsibility of brands to live up to the expectations they've built up in their customers is moral / ethical on a much deeper level.
Interested to see how the conversation unfolds here.
My experience is that, as an agency, a brand will be "loyal" to you as long as you provide a value of service that meets or exceeds their expectations. As consumers, it's similar in that we are "loyal" to brands that do the same. So I guess "loyalty" really comes down to consistency of providing a service that improves our lives.
Brand loyalty, as it's historically defined, is only relevant to sports teams. And I'm a Redskins fans so it's also associated with pain.
Of course, if you're supplier, things are different. If I sell pop cans to Coke, there's no reason I shouldn't sell them to Pepsi. Don't you think?
As for consumers, I think that brand loyalty is about coming back. It doesn't mean that you don't test the waters. It means you come back even when you do.
Finally, as far as your concerned Chris, you're an exception. You're a super-user and a marketer and a communicator. You would be that much less effective as a professional if you didn't understand what Droid and Windows were doing, because many of the consumers you target will use these technologies - rather than the ones of your primary choice.
One product comes to mind that you've mentioned in your article, the iPhone. I feel strongly that the iPhone made my life better, more efficient, simpler. Although new phones may be enticing as I see commercials and read Twitter reviews, I am so happy with my iPhone that I have no intentions of parting with it (until I'm ready for a new model). I love it that much... and yes, I am typing this on a MacBook Pro, and I love Apple's customer service department.
As for your Coke/Pepsi issue, you're right... case studies are all a buzz for a reason. If you're working with one cola company, you might as well be working with them all. The company can keep sensitive information from you if they need to. As a consultant, they can also have you sign confidentiality agreements, which I'm certain they do. Aside from all of that, you're being hired for your experience within the industry and nothing else. There's plenty of room in our country for healthy competition, and as long as each company provides the consumer with what they want and need, what's to fear? We all succeed in the end.
You have the right idea. Since you're keeping track, I started out in design and transitioned into marketing for awhile. I now focus on social networking for business development, and I'm a big fan of your work. Keep it up.
Angela Denby
www.javasocialnetworking.com
http://www.twitter.com/angeladenby
Consulting for a competitor (say Coke) after I've consulted for Pepsi. I will have learned from the Pepsi experience, invariably adding to my wisdom. Why would I pretend I'm only as wise as I was pre_Pepsi?
How DO you do it, Chris? How DO you keep it straight so you don't overlap?
If you recommended a truly million $ strategy to one, do you not recommend the same strategy to the second company? Or do you modify it a little? You KNOW it worked, so if you did not recommend it, you may be withholding something the second company needed.
While this is just a theoretical/academic discussion for me right now, it does perplex me...
loyalty is something (smart) brands are in the business of earning. Brands with solid products have a shot at a solid relationship, but in a culture where 50% of marriages end in divorce, I don't think they should expect too much.
I think the best shot for brands of the future is to create community–feeling like part of a community is stronger than the connection most brands can muster.
A case study I use when presenting is DPreview.com, the camera review site. One day I noticed they had a developer's blog. At first, I wondered why a photography magazine needed a developer's blog. Then I realized that though DP Review puts 12 pages of useful information on every new camera out, the readers sometimes post over 100 comments. The public may not get any ad revenue, but they're certainly partners in making the site a top resource.
I wide-eyed-and-busy-tailed believe that the companies who will succeed through this next phase, will not focus on the competition, and will instead focus on developing a strong relationship with their customers, and help their customers become evangelists. In many ways their own fear is their only competition.
On the other hand, I think both you and the Brand Team need to actually USE the Brand's product or service once you are engaged as an Adviser in order to relate to and understand consumer issues.
Finally, especially in a line that depends on repeat sales, it is an important part of the assignment to 'get' what drives repeat sales.
1. How does your brand loyalty work as a consumer? For consumers, brand loyalty is rarely a 100%-0% thing. It is more of a continuum, with the loyal brands having an increasing share of wallet (and of attention). It is perfectly normal that you would want to check out a Droid phone -- it makes you normal, not a traitor to a brand. As we as marketers increase our relationships with our core consumers, we can expect greater mindshare, but never should we expect our consumers to put blinders on.
2. How do you interact with different clients in a business. As the leader of a consulting firm, we have had some overlaps of clients, but always in different areas. Even then, we try to keep the overlaps to a minimum - it just makes life easier. I follow the test that, if I were to hear about it on the news, would I be embarrassed in front of my daughter? That tends to keep me on the straight and narrow.
Do choices or necessities of action make any single consumer less loyal? No, I don't think they do. In fact, I think they give the consumer incredible power. They tell the manufacturer "For this task, I need to use this brand and its equity. For that task or function, I need to switch gears, switch personas and use another brand."
Contrary? Sure. But maybe this will help to keep brand agents on their toes and make them see that brands, in order to survive and thrive, have to be more plastic, more flexible.
I think sometimes, brand loyalty needs to be portable; it needs to be easily transfered from one brand to another in order to get a specific job or a task done.
Does that make the person with the loyalty any less loyal? No. Because at their heart, brands are just as much about solving problems as they are about affiliations. Often, those affiliations have to adapt in order to accomplish a certain goal or task in a certain way, or within a certain set of deadlines or constraints.
I think the whole notion of loyalty only kicks in properly when the product, the message of the marketing, and the use the product is being put to combine to form a new whole—whether that's a new set of values, feelings, and perceptions. Or something other, something different.
What creates real brand loyalty? I think it's a combination of things, but the most important, at least to my mind, are: the tone or undercurrent of the product form, function, and message; the quality of the product and the task it permits me to carry out or the statement it makes about me, and the liberation the two bring to my life as the person taking on the loyalty.
So, if you sold them a bolt-on you can sell to their competitor the same day, but if you helped define objectives and set strategy, six to nine months separation is minimum.
I think this is as much pragmatic as ethical; I don't want to compromise myself (when I look my mom, the mirror or the Boston Globe in the face) AND I don't want any current or future customer to compromise how they deal with me (when it's all about honesty) because of where I might turn up next.
Once you develop a trusting relationship and deliver quality results, I believe you can have a conversation with client #1 about prospect #2 that happens to be their competitor. If you've earned the deep trust of client #1 and disclose the opportunity to all parties, I find that most projects can move forward and waive the non-compete.
Look at the Droid vs. iPhone ads. They're almost vicious. If the agency handling the Droid account had previously worked for Apple, they'd probably have a good idea what marketing technique could be effectively used against them. If they didn't offer those suggestions because of their ethics, even though they knew they'd be valuable, they wouldn't be doing the job they were being paid to do and thus doing a disservice to the company that was currently paying them.
Now, let's say that 6 months later I'm no longer working for Apple and Motorola hires me to help them market the Droid. If they know I worked for Apple before I'm screwed, because the first thing they're going to ask me is how I can develop a marketing plan that will exploit Apple's Achilles heal. Obviously, if I know what we came up with to make that seem like a non issue while working for Apple, I'm going to know exactly how to make it an issue.
I guess companies "steal" competitors' employees all the time, intentionally or unintentionally. Doesn't that level the playing field over time? Isn't that good for consumers because they get the same "features" that matter? Thus shifting the ultimate test to "customer relationships" maybe?
Now, there is a time limit and I wouldn't decline an offer from a competitor of a previous company I'd worked for if a reasonable time had elapsed. Of course with large companies it's usually a moot point because they expect us to sign a non compete.
Hm.. even as I type this, I take that back. We can, and we've all done that before. E.g. we've all successfully told ourselves not to let any biases or previous knowledge of a person/event affect our decision. We can temporarily fence off something that we know about so that it does not affect our decisions/conduct.
However, we have to keep reminding ourselves. It's easy to slip. And who can constantly track what goes on in the deep recesses of our minds? Not me! That's why I think Honesty is the best policy. It takes too much work to keep track of lies. It would drive me crazy!
As a REALTOR, I strive for the highest level of customer service possible. Do I achieve this? Yes. My clients that have turned into my advocates prove that. Have I failed? Yes. I lose fewer and fewer clients as times goes on, because I continually earn trust and provide the best customer service. If a past client uses another agent, I usually already expected it. Either because they are not loyal to anyone or any brand, or they simply the opportunistic type that uses the services of the agent available to them at the time of their emotional need.
By the way, as a REALTOR I am held to a high level of ethics and all information is deemed confidential. That doesn't mean that I don't use the experience from a previous transaction to guide my actions in the future. I'm not revealing anything of the past client to the new client, nor am I betraying any trust built between us.
Sorry to get so long winded here, but there is a great deal of intertwining between trust and loyalty. I want to continue to do good work as you encourage us to do.
For brands, customer loyalty is only something they can aspire and wish for - not buy/ own. We have a classic phrase from Bhagavad Geeta, 'Do your duty, do not expect returns'....that pretty much sums up the brand's position here - all they can do is make a great product or deliver excellent service - it's up to the customers to judge how good it was and decide on the standards vis-a-vis competition!
If we somehow FEEL disloyal by checking out other brands, then it's all in our heads. We mature, we change, our needs change as we move through stages of life. Why do we feel guilty checking out new ideas, concepts and products?
I also like the quote "Do your duty, do not expect returns". I can easily and freely recommend the same insight/strategy to 2 competing companies,... because neither are paying me. It's up to them to figure out how to implement. Once I accept payment...that's when it gets perplexing.
LOL What that tells me is I can never be a paid consultant. I love sharing ideas and brainwaves. I just cannot get paid. :-)
One can be happy with a brand up to a point where it makes sense to change because of need or wants. In the case of car manufactures, the American brands have all admitted this year that they were building junk. All 3 of them had ads running this past few months saying how their products now are as good as Toyota or Honda. It may be time to come back to the American car brands, I think for the first time in decades they are starting to listen to the consumer.
In my mind, the brand does itself justice by providing superior products at competitive prices across the board. But that's really tough to do...
On the second issue, I'd agree that you can absolutely balance working for multiple competitors (at different times) and that you would damage your own business if you were to limit which brands you worked for based on previous relationships. Surely in the long run being associated with Pepsi and never Coke, or Apple but never Microsoft, means you're seen to be affiliated rather than impartial, which affects perceptions of you and your work for the future.
That said, regardless of personal ethics, for a variety of reasons I've always made it a practice not to work with direct competitors at the same time or to develop a vertical practice. There is that good old 'appearance of conflict' to deal with. For example -- if I have two medical products clients and an opportunity for one to comment for a New York Times story, who gets the coverage? In many instances, companies simply won't hire me if I'm also working with a competitor - or have in the recent past. Beyond PR, I have friends in the market research world who also face this dilemma.
I know that many companies have built single industry agencies, particularly in healthcare/pharma and financial services and it would be interesting to have their weigh-in on this meaty issue.
I can see working with direct competitors in large enterprises where working within one segment of the business for one of them, customer service for example, doesn't conflict with work in a segment of the other, maybe sales & marketing. But all parameters of confidentiality and boundaries would have to be set forth and clearly understood/agreed to by the parties in advance.
I like your style, Chris.
As for cars, I'm in Detroit and GM is my brand! So, yes I'm definitely brand loyal there. It's all I've ever driven, except for my first car - a big hunk o' metal - Ford Fairmont!
It's a pretty weak bargaining position to be in. Vendors (Coke, GM, etc) are the product in hand, and they're speaking to a lot of the wrong people, sending the wrong messages. I work in electronics retail, currently - I'm a walking Elbow, carrying ptoducts-in-hand - and I've never felt much support for my place from vendors. I may be loyal to some brands as a consumer, but spending a lot of my time behind the counter fielding questions on behalf of these vendors, my personal loyalty can't become an issue in the same way yours can't; it's bad for my business, and unethical of me to impose my opinions on my clients.
Vendors are in an odd place. They can speak to everyone, but they never seem to have anything meaningful to say, it's all fluff. Even the training we recieve is, in general, a PR pitch - which is useless to Walking Elbows willing to be the final face of their products. Some cohesion of message would be nice, for once.
Why not competitors? They claim to be different with unique USP's so your are doing work for two different companies.
First, I think that in most cases it's perfectly acceptable to work with competitors in a given space, as long as you don't cross any lines with respect to disclosing one client's intellectual property to another. The truth is that clients want domain expertise, they just don't want to know where you got it. At my last company we provided software product development services to 2 of the top 5 ERP companies and 3 of the top 5 networked storage companies. By instituting the right governance procedures we were able to provide great services to all our clients while continuing to build our knowledge around the technology, develop a deeper understanding of their businesses and bring a point of view on how to creatively solve underlying business problems, which is where the real business value is created. It's called practice building and, as a much smarter guy than me, you know it's done all the time. Clients know it too, all though they may hem and haw during the process, but more often than not, it's to negotiate some advantage for themselves.
The only time I feel it's crossing the line is if you use your knowledge of specific program(s) you just instituted at one client and then go to the competitor and help them build a defensive strategy or stage a counter-offensive (basically becoming an arms salesman who supplies opposing armies).
The other point I wanted to make was in regards to the Caddy CTS. I just recently went through the car-buying process and ended up with the Infiniti G37. I looked at the CTS. Thought it was beautiful inside and out. I was American too. I really wanted to like it. But then I drove it. For some reason it just fell flat for me...and it was 10% more expensive than other cars I looked at, which for a company that should be driving for share and going through a structured reorganization was seemed a poor strategy. Additionally, while there was a lot of consternation about GM & Chrysler paring back their dealers, they should have focused on revamping them. I went to 2 Caddy dealers and both felt no different than any Hyundai, Honda or Ford dealer. For a luxury car brand, the experience was pretty low budget and was another factor in my decision.
http://motormouths.com/car/cadillac/cts
We have a client in the retail space (we're brand developers) who openly acknowledges how his clients buy his brand and the competition's. He is not at all bothered if buyers are loyal to more than his brand. But were I to work for both at the same time? Hell no. That would not go.
I think the emotions behind the issue -- vulnerability, privacy, weakness, ambition -- are stronger than the logic you'd like to see in play.
-- Axle Davids
@1day1brand
p.s. I fell in love with the CTS after the Matrix Reloaded. Thanks for adding another fave pop-culture reference to rationalize my desire for a car I don't need at all.
I'm due for a new cell phone made in this century. Thinking Blackberry Bold or iPhone, but leaning toward Blackberry for the physical keyboard and better email for multiple addresses. Now thinking seriously about the Droid. I hope you will review it if you get it. Thanks!
When I started reading this post, I thought it was like playing chess against yourself - even though you move the board around, you're still thinking of your next move as the 'other side'.
However, by the end, I think it boils down to doing the best job you can with the materials your given (web design).
Ultimately, the newer job will benefit from the shared learning you learnt on previous jobs - so there's a good case for re-visiting old clients and offering them an 'update' based on what you learnt on the latest job, without breaking any confidentiality of course.
Thanks for putting a moral dilemma down in writing.
Jonathan.
In order to determine if multiple brands is a trend, or was just considered a good idea at the time but in hindsight may be a disaster, it is worthwhile to consider why a company may consider operating another brand.
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