Chris Brogan: Social Media- Talk is Cheap for Businesses
Tim Brunelle
· 1 year ago
Chris,
Damn. This is awesome stuff.
I'm in complete agreement, especially around staffing issues. I really think we're in a foggy state now with regards to roles, reporting and budgeting for social media. Mark Silva had a neat post a while back about a microbrewery in Denver that had defined one person in their marketing dept as the Facebook Specialist and another as the MySpace specialist. First time I'd seen it officially.
But I suspect we're not far from bigger corps establishing these roles. We had Valeria Maltoni visit Minneapolis recently, and she talked about digital personas--referencing a "digital identity" map from Fred Cavazza. I've asked my students in our "Future of Advertising" class to fill theirs out and treat it as a compliment to their resumes and portfolios. (Oh wait, Seth just said we don't need resumes anymore.)
The good part about all this is the questioning. It's important and healthy to upset the apple cart now and then. Hopefully the adoption of Social Media into corporations causes some re-structuring and inventive new staffing plans.
Anyway, great post!
Tim
Michael Brito
· 1 year ago
Chris - excellent post and great insight. You bring up a lot of good points that many refuse to talk about. I am really tired of “getting your content on the home page of Digg” type stories because there is so much more to it.
As a previous community manager, I can tell you that you hit it right on the head. Community managers have an extremely difficult job; but as long as they advocate on behalf of the community in whatever hat they are wearing (customer service, soliciting feedback for product teams, marketing, etc.) they should do just fine.
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
@Tim- Not only is Seth probably right, we're not far from not exactly needing blogs any more. One day soon, someone is going to "live" completely and utterly in a lifestream. FriendFeed starts to give you that sense. Not me. I like my blog. But someone.
@Michael- Can you talk about what the role was like? You don't have to say who, but what did you do? How were you measured? Etc...
Jason Rakowski
· 1 year ago
Good Layout and design. I like your blog. I just added your RSS feed to my Google News Reader. .
Jason Rakowski
Michael Brito
· 1 year ago
Chris - it was at Yahoo. I had a few different positions there but my last one was a community manager for Yahoo! Messenger. It was challenging at times because there was a constant need to prove the value of conversations to the product team(s); and there wasn’t much participation from them when it came to our monthly roundtable calls.
Believe it or not, we were measured the same way that traditional online marketers are measured by…web traffic to our blogs (visits, pv’s) and then more recently with engagement metrics like retention, comments, RSS subscribers, etc.
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
@Michael - last question, I swear. What did Yahoo! think they'd get from those metrics? Meaning, if you had more subscribers and comments, did that in any way track to larger adoption of the Messenger app?
Jim Durbin
· 1 year ago
I tell clients that in the next 3-5 years, every marketing and corporate communications department, and every ad, marketing, and public relations firm will either have full-time bloggers or full-time social media staff. If that isn't the case, then blogging will be a skillset like Microsoft Office. Everyone assumes you have it.
Selling to the C-suite is essential, because it's the only way to get accountability. I'm with you that far too many people are enjoying social media without thinking of revenue, or joining because its exciting and seems easier than their current job.
Having a bunch of friends on Twitter, or loading a bunch of applications, is not a job. It's something that makes you better at your job.
The metrics I use for social media campaigns are SEO, PR, and lead generation. A good blogging campaign can be funded almost entirely on PPC savings for the right company. There are more benefits than that, but if you can measure the tangible benefits, the funding for the program or the position will be there to began reaping the intangible benefits.
And a final thought - a lot of us are using our newfound fame to get new jobs and join new industries. It's important to leave something behind for the company that got you started - as one of the big obstacles I have in selling is executives that want to know why they are training smart employees on how to leave the company.
Good post Chris - came here from Twitter.
Steven Lubetkin
· 1 year ago
Chris is definitely onto something here, something I noticed about large corporations from the inside before I left to be a podcaster full-time (how crazy is that?)
The reality of most companies is they need to minimize risks/costs, and hiring people for social media is a cost. They are still not sure this stuff is going to last. Unlike Jim Durbin, above, who thinks companies will be hiring bloggers and social media people as part of existing corp comm departments, I think companies will morph those functions (or outsource them) into "all social media, all the time" so that instead of spending hours or days carefully crafting press pitches, they will become more focused on who the influencers really are -- some days it's the NY Times, but some days it's Chris Brogan's blog -- and moving seamlessly from one channel to another.
After all, these are really just different conversation channels requiring different approaches to the conversation, right? You discuss your message differently with a Times reporter than you do with a blogger, but the end goal is largely the same, isn't it?
Steven Lubetkin
· 1 year ago
I thought of something else...this is all really about the lost art of ... OMFG ... TALKING TO CUSTOMERS! In the 1980s, I worked for Conrail when we were running commuter trains -- with real passengers/customers -- for NJTransit. Top management ordered all managers to ride trains and TALK to customers...some of my colleagues were really afraid...service was poor, trains were dirty and late, etc. Guess what?
The customers really appreciated those of us who walked the trains with our Conrail ID pinned on, and took the time to speak with us. Like Lionel at Dell has discovered, you do get points for at least being willing to speak honestly -- and listen to customers -- about stuff that you may not be able to fix.
Imagine that? What a concept...
Jim Durbin
· 1 year ago
Steven,
While it sounds like a good idea to have corporations actually engaging in social media, I disagree that they will actually get involved in the nitty gritty of "talking to customers."
The majority of companies will delegate responsibility to someone inside the corporation to handle this. That means hiring a social media expert, or training existing personnel to do so.
The skills it takes to be a networker, community manager, researcher and blogger, are not the same as those required for creating messages. Some people have both skills, but most do not. The functions will remain separate.
Corporate communications isn't going to morph, because the resistance will be too great. Maybe in 20 years, but not in the short term.
Lauren Vargas
· 1 year ago
You are spot on...In fact, I was asking Twitter yesterday for corporate staffing organization examples. You have captured everything I have been tasked to brief to my corporation. I do not agree with Jim Durbin that it will take quite so long for corporations to adapt, but it will be an uphill battle. My main focus is to maintain authenticity in all profiles. Yes, I will stay in tune with all the new apps and technology, but "stepping up my game" means to staying honest and leading my corporation down the path of choosing the right channels, not just the lastest widget.
dayngr
· 1 year ago
If I may add my 2 cents here, Carnival Cruise Lines (for example) has a team of folks in place to manage communities. At CCL, these folks are a part of the Internet Marketing Team so it is like a marriage between IT and Marketing. These folks use social media tools like twitter (and so many more) to track and monitor the buzz about CCL, quell rumors and disseminate useful information. Naturally they also use it to promote and market. - @Dayngr
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
@Dayngr - Interesting. I like that placement in an org. Is Internet marketing held apart from print and other channels?
Jim Durbin
· 1 year ago
dayngr - i do see that in some companies - the internet marketing team taking the ball and running with it. At the same time, the internet marketing team is often staffed with SEM and SEO folks who see a real threat in social media (as they should).
An SEO position is big bucks - what happens when you can hire a 24 year old to blog and she gets the same results as the $150,000 guy? It happens - a lot more than one might think.
I realize my view may be unpopular, but its borne out by experience. As much as I'd like to see a merging of digital and traditional marketing, or online and social media - it's not going to happen overnight. A small, small portion of the online world "gets" social media for business. An even smaller portion of the business world understands how to do it. Despite the number of articles on the subject in AdAge and other magazines, social media is still the red-headed stepchild in the room.
It's a structural problem, which is why the staffing matters do much. Right now, companies are hiring either low-level staffers (because that's all that's available), or they are looking for people to lead the campaigns, which makes more sense for consultants than permanent staff.
Agencies are struggling to do it, and corporations can't justify the position in their salary structure to find the right person except in rare, Web 2.0 companies.
Back to my original prediction - 3-5 years before every department has a social media guru, or the skills are in the staff. That's actually very fast adoption. It will start with SEO and SEM, and spread to PR and corp comm.
Traditional marketing will be the last, as they still struggle to align digital with print.
Kasey Sistrunk
· 1 year ago
Chris, great post. I completely agree on the "do. make. learn." part. Communicating value is all about understanding value. Professionals who don't truly understand how many of these tools work (or potential value they add to the organization) yet continue to pitch them to clients create a larger issue. Unable to deliver on promises, they perpetuate skepticism among businesses. Also-- yes, yes, yes on the "human interface" part. Great stuff.
Steve, I agree on your outsourcing comments. Having spent years in corporate communications, as well (in the banking industry...talk about corporate), there is a natural aversion to risk. However, contracted "experts" are given much more freedom to explore new tools. These experts also have a direct link to the C-Suite (another must when you are proposing change). While I do think there will be in-house staff one day...right now, the framework for that is being built by those who do this every day, all day.
Maddie Grant
· 1 year ago
Sweet post. I work in the association (non-profit) industry which is always a couple of steps behind the corporate world - and the value proposition of social media is something that we (association bloggers) don't quite know how to show, despite all our evangelizing about it. (I linked to this here - http://diaryofareluctantblogger.blogspot.com/20... just-get-crackin-part-3.html) It's interesting to see that it's also still an issue out there in business-land.
Joe Budde Jr
· 1 year ago
"Do. Make. Learn." Apt words for attacking the social media space from a corporation perspective.
The issues that you explained throughout the post don’t align with these actions directly though.
I think the key addition needed is TEACH. Adding “Teach” to "Do. Make. Learn." makes the difference. Teaching why/how these new tools make everyone more productive is where the value of change lies.
Excel had/has a steep learning curve, pivot tables aren’t second nature to everyone. Now the finance world can’t function without it. It just took someone explaining how the cells add it up automatically for it to increase productivity.
Teaching how a blog or a wiki or a social network increases cross-functional interaction or saves employees from spending weeks copy pasting is the key differentiating factor between a company who reaps the benefit from the tools vs. one who doesn't.
Matt Browne
· 1 year ago
We also can't forget that sometimes the best community managers come from the community itself. If you are an established brand, chances are, there is someone out there already acting as an evangelist for your company in some capacity or another.
The key to creating a positive ROI in social media is being creative. For example, giving free product to an existing brand evangelist might be a good trade the community manager and company. Hiring interns to help execute your plan to 'do, make, learn' is also very affordable.
I do see the importance of keeping costs down and maximizing revenues via social media. Though, I think there is a double standard when comparing our industry to traditional media- they doesn't necessarily have to prove the same success metrics. Traditional mediums rest on the foundation of comfortability, safety, and experience. But, no one can really tell you the ROI of billboard, or TV ad in the same way they ask you to define it for social media.
So why can't we play by the same rules? Position social media as an investment in a platform to communicate with your clients and future clients.
Jeff
· 1 year ago
Chris,
For this comment I left my personal writing site and not my blog because the point I want to make has to do with perception and semantics.
I fully agree that new media is an underused and valuable commodity, but I fear that the lines are beginning to blur when it comes to using the term 'media' and especially the mantra 'we are the media'.
I say that because media to me is journalism. And if you're not professionally trained and experienced in the field, all you're providing is static.
The coming backlash from content consumers will tell the tale and I urge you to keep your eyes open for when online publications and other outlets begin to tighten the reins on what content is good enough to use.
Right now - and this relates to new media because it's a space with only so much bandwidth - the news is competing with the blogs is competing with the podcast is competing with the video is competing with the video is competing with the leisure time.
For us (now wearing my podcaster and new media hat, NOT my journalist hat) to compete with the influx of information, we'll have to treat our product as a valuable one. We'll have to stop giving it away at some point because the act of doing so eliminates the value that is inherent in the product.
To clarify, when you have Josephine Sixpack report on an event for BostonNow via her blog - that she gives for free to BostonNow - readers are caught in a netherworld of "is this opinion or is this news".
The same skepticism abounds when you have so many new media products hitting you. Especially when the branded names like NPR, Popular Science, etc. joining the fray.
My point is that new media has a value, but only if you can show clients that the audience will believe the content and act on it. Otherwise, why would you or I or any business owner invest in this technology?
Here are two scenarios from the real world.
1-Brookstone Corp. has no new media presence. I have freelanced for them in many roles for five years and have extolled the virtue of creating a twitter name or a corporate blog or even a gadget podcast. They cannot see where this will help them.
In a market where they have tightened their return policy down to practically "leave the store and you own it", they could definitely use some positive connection with their consumers. And in a pool where Sharper Image has just tanked, they could lock down buyers with some added value, but they are driven by dollars and points and margin.
Until they spend some time in the new media playground (and that's what it still is - don't fool yourself), they won't see how our products can motivate buyers.
2 - Grampys.com is a site I use to help manage a charity golf tournament. For about six years I've been wailing and crying about putting everything online so we don't have to pay for paper and mailing. Finally we are doing that. But SIX YEARS after I began my rallying cry.
The audience here is typical of many businesses. They use email in their work and they know how to see the latest headlines and porn via the Web, but that's about it.
IM is foreign to them. RSS means nothing to them. Podcasts are the same. The greatest advance these people recognize is Satellite radio, but that's pure entertainment and not a business driver.
Point being, to convert an established audience is going to be like turning a tanker around. And maybe it's not worth the return to try and convert the staid and stodgy establishment.
Instead, refining our message, identifying the best ONE OR TWO avenues or tools (instead of 42 social networks and 21 RSS aggregators and 15 Twitter wannabe's) is probably a better way to spend our energy.
Overall, you're preaching to the choir. If somebody is able and willing to comment on a blog, they're already in your house. The people we have to reach - if the dream (yes, it's still a dream) of getting business to embrace new media is going to happen - are the ones who use faxes and mail and newspaper ads to make things happen.
These are the same people who believe a press release is more effective than a blog post and who don't think of things like co-branding their particular product with another to bring both ships up in the water.
We have a long way to go and maybe a short time to get there, but our quest isn't as simple as moving a truckload of Coors across a few states. We've got to move a whole population.
I'm with you on this, but I'm going into it with my eyes open, not with blind optimism.
Good stuff. I am lucky to be a part of a community that "gets it." I go to Goddard College in Vermont. The PR guy at Goddard has basicaly given me and my company free reign to produce an organizational podcast for the college called Stories From Goddard. It has just started, but it is already a success! I don't know if it would have been very successful if it were left up to college staff, though. I think it gets a lot of strength from the fact that I am already a Goddard evangelist and that I am passionate about social media. I think there is something to be said for outsourcing.
This precise question is what I've been spending most of my thinking time on lately. I'm looking to find a gig as one of those folks who brings new media to a smart but not yet plugged-in company. There are a lot of hurdles, even for a company that already knows it wants to jump in.
SG talks about the way that social media will completely restructure companies, not just be a new channel to spout messages. Along with that comes a lot of confusion and a lot of resistance.
I have no answers, just a lot of questions, but this post helps me in my current wandering-around phase. Thanks much. I am sending pointers to lots of folks on this.
DaveWebb
· 1 year ago
Fantastic post, Chris - read the special edition in my email this morning and I knew there would be buzz in Twitter and on your blog.
While having one foot during the daytime in the traditional media world of newspapers, and the other foot during the night trying to establish a new media presence for my business, I have come to appreciate the fresh optimism and advocacy you write about here, as well as the stark reality that Jeff Cutler comments about above.
Currently, I'm working on writing a proposal to the newspaper company I work for to implement an office of innovation & strategy management to facilitate change more quickly and help embrace social media more fully. So last week on Twitter I asked, "What advice would you give a newspaper company to reinvent themselves to stay relevant in a Web 2.0/social media world?" One of the responses I got was "Surrender?" I replied that 100+ years of community involvement & support is too much positive impact, resource & foundation to wave the white flag yet!
There is a move among newspaper companies to leverage that long-term positive contribution to function as a kind town square and connective tissue of community life. They are also seeking new ways to provide businesses with both comprehensive and targeted solutions for reaching people, niches and interests. The idea is to make the leap from a closed, stodgy, monolithic institution, to a creative, flexible, multi-dimensional organization. This is no small feat and the wheels of progress are painstakingly slow.
While the earth-shifting impact of social media and the new networked economy is especially noticeable in traditional media enclaves, facing that impact will soon be an imperative for every business, no matter how small. However, those companies that grapple with, embrace, and adapt to the change, will be poised to make a positive contribution to their own bottom line and to the communities that they serve.
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
Jeff Cutler - thanks for leaving your writing site. VERY useful stuff. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm facing that same barrier to entry over and over right now. It's interesting, because lots of different organizations are facing this from similar-but-different angles. It's out there for sure.
Will - Lucky.
Sonia- Questions are useful. Ask plenty! : )
Sean Ransom
· 1 year ago
Very interesting post about a subject I have been thinking about a lot myself.
Social media will definitely be important in the next few years, just not sure how much and I think that is where the trepidation comes from big companies. I mean just look at the business plans, or serious lack there of, with a majority of these social media companies and it is not hard to see most will be gone in 1-3 years. This is a bubble period and we shall see how it shakes out.
As for where this position fits in...
I think the elephant in the room here is that social media in just marketing whether it be personal or corporate, nothing else. No one seems to want to say it though which I find odd. Marketing does not have to be a dirty word, it is a necessity. Blogging, tweeting, etc are just another way to market, and a dirt cheap one at that compared to radio, tv and print advertising. That is where the position belongs in a big company setting and where is would make the most sense to get traction.
Emphasize it as a marketing job, that is how you will get your foot into the door. This is coming from a technology director and we are supposed to hate marketing :)
Yes they should be customer advocates but so should everyone at your company, from the mail guy to the CEO. If they do not, fire them.
I cut my teeth working at amazon.com for 9 years and in retrospect it probably was the first social media company. Through customer reviews and top notch customer service amazon has always stood for what social media is about. I for one chafe at social media being the way to advocate the customer, sure it is one way but everyone at your company should already be doing this. Amazon.com got that early on.
At our new startup social media is a big part of what we do. We have had tons of good press in lots of well respected print mags and even TV but blogs and word of mouth have been where a majority of our business comes from.
We are small so measuring the results is easy, new customers :)
-sean
Michael Martine, Blog Consulta
· 1 year ago
Basically what you're pointing out here Chris is that most businesses are not ready for their own future. And if they're not ready now, and they don't get ready soon, they will be dead.
And who wants to work with dead businesses? I'd rather work with businesses that get it. There are enough of them and their number is growing.
Ben Cote
· 1 year ago
Awesome post Chris
you nailed it and inspired me once again.
i'm smack dab in the middle of all of this and trying to identify its metrics and how to measure it and how to know if one thing is working or not. Its a brave new world.
Ben...
Michael Brito
· 1 year ago
No worries Chris. The long-term strategy of the blog wasn't necessarily adoption of the Messenger client. It was more about gaining feedback from the users; consolidating that feedback and sending it to the product for future innovation; and rewarding our most valuable users through loyalty programs and roundtable calls.
In no way were we measuring the "true" value of the conversations on the blog; which is surely a difficult task.
chrisbrogan
· 1 year ago
@Michael- I'd say it's the other way around. I think businesses are standing at the starting line, saying, "I'm ready to run. Now what?" And we're the one failing them. If we're not there with the whole "interface kit," it's us. I think they're ready.
Jim Durbin
· 1 year ago
hmmm - some businesses are ready. Those are the ones writing me checks! lol
Maybe it's selection bias, but I've found it's the small and medium size business looking to compete online that are the best places to sell.
Large companies are all willing to listen, but their desire to act is often limited. They're big on the benefits, but not on the work it takes for them to gain it. That's an essential lesson. We can't do all of the work for them, and big companies are used to outsourcing. The problem with social media is you can't buy it and walk away from it.
I consider social media consultants to be like personal trainers. We can show someone how to get fit, but we can't do the crunches for them. If we do, we end up with the benefits, instead of our paying client.
Michael Martine, Blog Consulta
· 1 year ago
@ Chris - It depends on where you live. I can't even hardly explain what I do for a living to the people walking down the street of my town. As William Gibson said: the future's already here, it's just not evenly distributed. Luckily for us, we can be there online for the ones that need us. It's really like two different worlds. People are starting to wake up to the existence of the other world. It's tougher than learning a whole new language for them. People don't even know where to start, man.
Looking forward to meeting you at SOBCon.
Connie Bensen
· 1 year ago
Great post Chris. Community management is at times exhilarating & totally rewarding. And at other times frustrating. (maybe like parenting?).
I work hard to represent the customers internally as well as provide training. And I provide the connection to customers that need their issues escalated for whatever reason. I serve as a type of traffic director for information flowing in both directions (into & out of the co)
Brian Solis included my case study in his ebook - it outlines my efforts. And I totally agree - experiment & DO something, then build on the success! http://www.briansolis.com/2008/03/new-ebook-cus...
Sonciary Honnoll
· 1 year ago
Chris,
I play in the 'working with businesses' space and deal with the pieces you mentioned on a daily basis. I can't say I've figured it all out. I can say that you're dead on when you write that we're going to have to be 'less vague' and up our 'ante on skills and perspective.' In situations like these, I'd love to have a mentor, but for now, I'll succeed and fail, but learn as I go.
On another note, focusing in on businesses entering the collaborative web world is very exciting. I recently joined the startup BizUnite, an Independent Business Platform. We give the indie biz, or 'David', 'Goliath clout' through cost saving programs (insurance, shipping, credit card processing, etc.), training, marketing and networking that increase sales and reduce costs.
The indie biz isn't poised to thrive in today’s environment which is dominated by larger, more unified competitors. We're gonna change that. :)
Rox
· 1 year ago
I think it is really worth the pause here to acknowledge the very difficult job it is to find a community manager who knows the product, who is literate in new media, who has the technical and social and psychological qualities to work it well, and who has enough vision and backbone to not take the naysayers personally.
I've been working more and more with clients who actually want to play with the tools, but they are not wanting to invest so much in the key personnel that will make or break it IMO.
This is nothing new - companies have typically felt more comfortable buying stuff as compared to investing in people. People are all over the map after all, while a computer is measurable and boxable. I think the social space is increasingly shining the light on this discrepancy between the tools and the users of the tools.
I wrote a blog post last June '07 (see link on my name) outlining what I think it takes to be this key person, a social media maven, drawn from a discussion on LinkedIn.
All Comments
Damn. This is awesome stuff.
I'm in complete agreement, especially around staffing issues. I really think we're in a foggy state now with regards to roles, reporting and budgeting for social media. Mark Silva had a neat post a while back about a microbrewery in Denver that had defined one person in their marketing dept as the Facebook Specialist and another as the MySpace specialist. First time I'd seen it officially.
But I suspect we're not far from bigger corps establishing these roles. We had Valeria Maltoni visit Minneapolis recently, and she talked about digital personas--referencing a "digital identity" map from Fred Cavazza. I've asked my students in our "Future of Advertising" class to fill theirs out and treat it as a compliment to their resumes and portfolios. (Oh wait, Seth just said we don't need resumes anymore.)
The good part about all this is the questioning. It's important and healthy to upset the apple cart now and then. Hopefully the adoption of Social Media into corporations causes some re-structuring and inventive new staffing plans.
Anyway, great post!
Tim
As a previous community manager, I can tell you that you hit it right on the head. Community managers have an extremely difficult job; but as long as they advocate on behalf of the community in whatever hat they are wearing (customer service, soliciting feedback for product teams, marketing, etc.) they should do just fine.
@Michael- Can you talk about what the role was like? You don't have to say who, but what did you do? How were you measured? Etc...
Jason Rakowski
Believe it or not, we were measured the same way that traditional online marketers are measured by…web traffic to our blogs (visits, pv’s) and then more recently with engagement metrics like retention, comments, RSS subscribers, etc.
Selling to the C-suite is essential, because it's the only way to get accountability. I'm with you that far too many people are enjoying social media without thinking of revenue, or joining because its exciting and seems easier than their current job.
Having a bunch of friends on Twitter, or loading a bunch of applications, is not a job. It's something that makes you better at your job.
The metrics I use for social media campaigns are SEO, PR, and lead generation. A good blogging campaign can be funded almost entirely on PPC savings for the right company. There are more benefits than that, but if you can measure the tangible benefits, the funding for the program or the position will be there to began reaping the intangible benefits.
And a final thought - a lot of us are using our newfound fame to get new jobs and join new industries. It's important to leave something behind for the company that got you started - as one of the big obstacles I have in selling is executives that want to know why they are training smart employees on how to leave the company.
Good post Chris - came here from Twitter.
The reality of most companies is they need to minimize risks/costs, and hiring people for social media is a cost. They are still not sure this stuff is going to last. Unlike Jim Durbin, above, who thinks companies will be hiring bloggers and social media people as part of existing corp comm departments, I think companies will morph those functions (or outsource them) into "all social media, all the time" so that instead of spending hours or days carefully crafting press pitches, they will become more focused on who the influencers really are -- some days it's the NY Times, but some days it's Chris Brogan's blog -- and moving seamlessly from one channel to another.
After all, these are really just different conversation channels requiring different approaches to the conversation, right? You discuss your message differently with a Times reporter than you do with a blogger, but the end goal is largely the same, isn't it?
The customers really appreciated those of us who walked the trains with our Conrail ID pinned on, and took the time to speak with us. Like Lionel at Dell has discovered, you do get points for at least being willing to speak honestly -- and listen to customers -- about stuff that you may not be able to fix.
Imagine that? What a concept...
While it sounds like a good idea to have corporations actually engaging in social media, I disagree that they will actually get involved in the nitty gritty of "talking to customers."
The majority of companies will delegate responsibility to someone inside the corporation to handle this. That means hiring a social media expert, or training existing personnel to do so.
The skills it takes to be a networker, community manager, researcher and blogger, are not the same as those required for creating messages. Some people have both skills, but most do not. The functions will remain separate.
Corporate communications isn't going to morph, because the resistance will be too great. Maybe in 20 years, but not in the short term.
An SEO position is big bucks - what happens when you can hire a 24 year old to blog and she gets the same results as the $150,000 guy? It happens - a lot more than one might think.
I realize my view may be unpopular, but its borne out by experience. As much as I'd like to see a merging of digital and traditional marketing, or online and social media - it's not going to happen overnight. A small, small portion of the online world "gets" social media for business. An even smaller portion of the business world understands how to do it. Despite the number of articles on the subject in AdAge and other magazines, social media is still the red-headed stepchild in the room.
It's a structural problem, which is why the staffing matters do much. Right now, companies are hiring either low-level staffers (because that's all that's available), or they are looking for people to lead the campaigns, which makes more sense for consultants than permanent staff.
Agencies are struggling to do it, and corporations can't justify the position in their salary structure to find the right person except in rare, Web 2.0 companies.
Back to my original prediction - 3-5 years before every department has a social media guru, or the skills are in the staff. That's actually very fast adoption. It will start with SEO and SEM, and spread to PR and corp comm.
Traditional marketing will be the last, as they still struggle to align digital with print.
Steve, I agree on your outsourcing comments. Having spent years in corporate communications, as well (in the banking industry...talk about corporate), there is a natural aversion to risk. However, contracted "experts" are given much more freedom to explore new tools. These experts also have a direct link to the C-Suite (another must when you are proposing change). While I do think there will be in-house staff one day...right now, the framework for that is being built by those who do this every day, all day.
just-get-crackin-part-3.html)
It's interesting to see that it's also still an issue out there in business-land.
Apt words for attacking the social media space from a corporation perspective.
The issues that you explained throughout the post don’t align with these actions directly though.
I think the key addition needed is TEACH. Adding “Teach” to "Do. Make. Learn." makes the difference. Teaching why/how these new tools make everyone more productive is where the value of change lies.
Excel had/has a steep learning curve, pivot tables aren’t second nature to everyone. Now the finance world can’t function without it. It just took someone explaining how the cells add it up automatically for it to increase productivity.
Teaching how a blog or a wiki or a social network increases cross-functional interaction or saves employees from spending weeks copy pasting is the key differentiating factor between a company who reaps the benefit from the tools vs. one who doesn't.
The key to creating a positive ROI in social media is being creative. For example, giving free product to an existing brand evangelist might be a good trade the community manager and company. Hiring interns to help execute your plan to 'do, make, learn' is also very affordable.
I do see the importance of keeping costs down and maximizing revenues via social media. Though, I think there is a double standard when comparing our industry to traditional media- they doesn't necessarily have to prove the same success metrics. Traditional mediums rest on the foundation of comfortability, safety, and experience. But, no one can really tell you the ROI of billboard, or TV ad in the same way they ask you to define it for social media.
So why can't we play by the same rules? Position social media as an investment in a platform to communicate with your clients and future clients.
For this comment I left my personal writing site and not my blog because the point I want to make has to do with perception and semantics.
I fully agree that new media is an underused and valuable commodity, but I fear that the lines are beginning to blur when it comes to using the term 'media' and especially the mantra 'we are the media'.
I say that because media to me is journalism. And if you're not professionally trained and experienced in the field, all you're providing is static.
The coming backlash from content consumers will tell the tale and I urge you to keep your eyes open for when online publications and other outlets begin to tighten the reins on what content is good enough to use.
Right now - and this relates to new media because it's a space with only so much bandwidth - the news is competing with the blogs is competing with the podcast is competing with the video is competing with the video is competing with the leisure time.
For us (now wearing my podcaster and new media hat, NOT my journalist hat) to compete with the influx of information, we'll have to treat our product as a valuable one. We'll have to stop giving it away at some point because the act of doing so eliminates the value that is inherent in the product.
To clarify, when you have Josephine Sixpack report on an event for BostonNow via her blog - that she gives for free to BostonNow - readers are caught in a netherworld of "is this opinion or is this news".
The same skepticism abounds when you have so many new media products hitting you. Especially when the branded names like NPR, Popular Science, etc. joining the fray.
My point is that new media has a value, but only if you can show clients that the audience will believe the content and act on it. Otherwise, why would you or I or any business owner invest in this technology?
Here are two scenarios from the real world.
1-Brookstone Corp. has no new media presence. I have freelanced for them in many roles for five years and have extolled the virtue of creating a twitter name or a corporate blog or even a gadget podcast. They cannot see where this will help them.
In a market where they have tightened their return policy down to practically "leave the store and you own it", they could definitely use some positive connection with their consumers. And in a pool where Sharper Image has just tanked, they could lock down buyers with some added value, but they are driven by dollars and points and margin.
Until they spend some time in the new media playground (and that's what it still is - don't fool yourself), they won't see how our products can motivate buyers.
2 - Grampys.com is a site I use to help manage a charity golf tournament. For about six years I've been wailing and crying about putting everything online so we don't have to pay for paper and mailing. Finally we are doing that. But SIX YEARS after I began my rallying cry.
The audience here is typical of many businesses. They use email in their work and they know how to see the latest headlines and porn via the Web, but that's about it.
IM is foreign to them. RSS means nothing to them. Podcasts are the same. The greatest advance these people recognize is Satellite radio, but that's pure entertainment and not a business driver.
Point being, to convert an established audience is going to be like turning a tanker around. And maybe it's not worth the return to try and convert the staid and stodgy establishment.
Instead, refining our message, identifying the best ONE OR TWO avenues or tools (instead of 42 social networks and 21 RSS aggregators and 15 Twitter wannabe's) is probably a better way to spend our energy.
Overall, you're preaching to the choir. If somebody is able and willing to comment on a blog, they're already in your house. The people we have to reach - if the dream (yes, it's still a dream) of getting business to embrace new media is going to happen - are the ones who use faxes and mail and newspaper ads to make things happen.
These are the same people who believe a press release is more effective than a blog post and who don't think of things like co-branding their particular product with another to bring both ships up in the water.
We have a long way to go and maybe a short time to get there, but our quest isn't as simple as moving a truckload of Coors across a few states. We've got to move a whole population.
I'm with you on this, but I'm going into it with my eyes open, not with blind optimism.
Thanks,
Jeff
http://www.jeffcutler.com
http://www.ideas2words.com
http://www.bowlofcheese.com
http://storiesfromgoddard.com
http://www.willboydmediasolutions.com
SG talks about the way that social media will completely restructure companies, not just be a new channel to spout messages. Along with that comes a lot of confusion and a lot of resistance.
I have no answers, just a lot of questions, but this post helps me in my current wandering-around phase. Thanks much. I am sending pointers to lots of folks on this.
While having one foot during the daytime in the traditional media world of newspapers, and the other foot during the night trying to establish a new media presence for my business, I have come to appreciate the fresh optimism and advocacy you write about here, as well as the stark reality that Jeff Cutler comments about above.
Currently, I'm working on writing a proposal to the newspaper company I work for to implement an office of innovation & strategy management to facilitate change more quickly and help embrace social media more fully. So last week on Twitter I asked, "What advice would you give a newspaper company to reinvent themselves to stay relevant in a Web 2.0/social media world?" One of the responses I got was "Surrender?" I replied that 100+ years of community involvement & support is too much positive impact, resource & foundation to wave the white flag yet!
There is a move among newspaper companies to leverage that long-term positive contribution to function as a kind town square and connective tissue of community life. They are also seeking new ways to provide businesses with both comprehensive and targeted solutions for reaching people, niches and interests. The idea is to make the leap from a closed, stodgy, monolithic institution, to a creative, flexible, multi-dimensional organization. This is no small feat and the wheels of progress are painstakingly slow.
While the earth-shifting impact of social media and the new networked economy is especially noticeable in traditional media enclaves, facing that impact will soon be an imperative for every business, no matter how small. However, those companies that grapple with, embrace, and adapt to the change, will be poised to make a positive contribution to their own bottom line and to the communities that they serve.
Will - Lucky.
Sonia- Questions are useful. Ask plenty! : )
Social media will definitely be important in the next few years, just not sure how much and I think that is where the trepidation comes from big companies. I mean just look at the business plans, or serious lack there of, with a majority of these social media companies and it is not hard to see most will be gone in 1-3 years. This is a bubble period and we shall see how it shakes out.
As for where this position fits in...
I think the elephant in the room here is that social media in just marketing whether it be personal or corporate, nothing else. No one seems to want to say it though which I find odd. Marketing does not have to be a dirty word, it is a necessity. Blogging, tweeting, etc are just another way to market, and a dirt cheap one at that compared to radio, tv and print advertising. That is where the position belongs in a big company setting and where is would make the most sense to get traction.
Emphasize it as a marketing job, that is how you will get your foot into the door. This is coming from a technology director and we are supposed to hate marketing :)
Yes they should be customer advocates but so should everyone at your company, from the mail guy to the CEO. If they do not, fire them.
I cut my teeth working at amazon.com for 9 years and in retrospect it probably was the first social media company. Through customer reviews and top notch customer service amazon has always stood for what social media is about. I for one chafe at social media being the way to advocate the customer, sure it is one way but everyone at your company should already be doing this. Amazon.com got that early on.
At our new startup social media is a big part of what we do. We have had tons of good press in lots of well respected print mags and even TV but blogs and word of mouth have been where a majority of our business comes from.
We are small so measuring the results is easy, new customers :)
-sean
And who wants to work with dead businesses? I'd rather work with businesses that get it. There are enough of them and their number is growing.
you nailed it and inspired me once again.
i'm smack dab in the middle of all of this and trying to identify its metrics and how to measure it and how to know if one thing is working or not. Its a brave new world.
Ben...
In no way were we measuring the "true" value of the conversations on the blog; which is surely a difficult task.
Maybe it's selection bias, but I've found it's the small and medium size business looking to compete online that are the best places to sell.
Large companies are all willing to listen, but their desire to act is often limited. They're big on the benefits, but not on the work it takes for them to gain it. That's an essential lesson. We can't do all of the work for them, and big companies are used to outsourcing. The problem with social media is you can't buy it and walk away from it.
I consider social media consultants to be like personal trainers. We can show someone how to get fit, but we can't do the crunches for them. If we do, we end up with the benefits, instead of our paying client.
Looking forward to meeting you at SOBCon.
Community management is at times exhilarating & totally rewarding. And at other times frustrating. (maybe like parenting?).
I work hard to represent the customers internally as well as provide training. And I provide the connection to customers that need their issues escalated for whatever reason. I serve as a type of traffic director for information flowing in both directions (into & out of the co)
Brian Solis included my case study in his ebook - it outlines my efforts. And I totally agree - experiment & DO something, then build on the success!
http://www.briansolis.com/2008/03/new-ebook-cus...
I play in the 'working with businesses' space and deal with the pieces you mentioned on a daily basis. I can't say I've figured it all out. I can say that you're dead on when you write that we're going to have to be 'less vague' and up our 'ante on skills and perspective.' In situations like these, I'd love to have a mentor, but for now, I'll succeed and fail, but learn as I go.
On another note, focusing in on businesses entering the collaborative web world is very exciting. I recently joined the startup BizUnite, an Independent Business Platform. We give the indie biz, or 'David', 'Goliath clout' through cost saving programs (insurance, shipping, credit card processing, etc.), training, marketing and networking that increase sales and reduce costs.
The indie biz isn't poised to thrive in today’s environment which is dominated by larger, more unified competitors. We're gonna change that. :)
I've been working more and more with clients who actually want to play with the tools, but they are not wanting to invest so much in the key personnel that will make or break it IMO.
This is nothing new - companies have typically felt more comfortable buying stuff as compared to investing in people. People are all over the map after all, while a computer is measurable and boxable. I think the social space is increasingly shining the light on this discrepancy between the tools and the users of the tools.
I wrote a blog post last June '07 (see link on my name) outlining what I think it takes to be this key person, a social media maven, drawn from a discussion on LinkedIn.
Chris - thanks for the article link to Beach Walks with Rox too!
Thanks for your time to write this post.