chrisbrogan.com - Latest Comments in Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

mony — Wed, 14 May 2014 09:49:56 -0000

ؤؤ

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Electrical Wholesalers — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:10:59 -0000

Make sure you have an open and friendly approach with your immediate customers and they are well looked after.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Jessica Merrell — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:20:34 -0000

Chris,

I'm reading this because a friend sent this to me after they read my blog post about me speaking at Jeff Pulver's Brands Conference where my story sounds eerily similar to this. The real difference is that I was the HR person supposed to be having those conversations for my company not the company talking to me about not using social media.

JMM

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

lv — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:59:37 -0000

ronic that nearly two years later, in this day and age of communication by technology, there are still many company’s still of the same mindset.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Brian Cousins — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:23:24 -0000

Ironic that nearly two years later, in this day and age of communication by technology, there are still many company’s still of the same mindset.

I find that the biggest fear today is the fear of being “exposed” and opening up the chance for someone to talk negatively about them. Hmm, pretty sure their doing it anyway….

To the fearful companies, start representing would you?

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Travis Wright — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:00:51 -0000

So, I met the real "Bob" yesterday and he shared with me the whole story... and I can say that Bob is a very intelligent and passionate man.

His interests were to solely help the customer... but after reading Ron Amundson's comments above here... you can see how a "slippery slope" can be viewed from inside a very large 20th century corporation.

People fear the unknown... and when someone is being a social media renegade outside of the normal channels of influence... Bob's company got spooked.

Bob needs to work for an innovative company... and get out of the early 20th century one.

Good luck Bob.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Ron Amundson — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:53:35 -0000

The graphic likely give it away in that the industry is ag related, then add in F500 and priced such that a Mercedes is cheap, and it could well be harvesting equipment for biotech, ie genetically modified corn for big pharma comes to mind, as a potential worst case scenario for social media engagement.

There are regulatory hurdles for sure to say nothing of liability issues plus a plain old PR mess within the local ag community. The average Joe is likely to be non to happy to learn that the field he passes on a daily basis is actually some type of GMO corn used in the realm of infectious disease pharmacology, whether it be curative or weapons grade is less of an issue that it exists at all in his neighborhood. Its one of the reasons biotech crops and associated info is held very close irrespective of intellectual property issues, as its a PR nightmare waiting to happen.

Then add in it being an F500 company, and its likely there is a huge after sales support infrastructure, likely involving a multitude of third parties. It does not impress third party support at all when a customer has insider information that they themselves are not privy too.

All of these things combined point to the need for centralized message control, and what might have started out as something very positive and forward looking, ie the forum, made for a ton of upset throughout other parts of the organization, whether it be regulatory, pr, third party support, legal, etc, The end result, it got shut down while they try to see how social media could work (likely a long term decision process as it impacts so much of the org), and no one bothered to explain to Bob what the system wide ramifications were (likely being a large entity, few folks could see the system issues as a whole).

He sounds like a real go-getter employee, and had he understood what the issues were, he likely would have amended his approach well before getting in trouble with his superiors. (Yep, I've had Bob style guys working for me in the past and have had to reign them in a bit. A full explanation goes a long way in such matters). Ultimately though, he was pushing the limits, and without some type of approval, even an informal skunkworks style, that can backfire pretty fast in a large org.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Stefano Maggi — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:25:32 -0000

This is a nasty story. But it's a symbol of "old style" approach to digital media. I think everything is on the move, also in less advanced industries and for less pioneer brands. Of course this reminds us Social Media is not a way of thinking for every brand / company.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Leigh Duncan-Durst — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:58:18 -0000

Posted a response on my site.

This is all too familiar. Bob could really be any of us. Bob should consider showing his boss and other folks transcripts of his talks, and these posts... but it is entirely possible the writing is on the wall. It's sad, because they're going after a guy who wants to do the right thing for the company and the customers.

Ultimately, perhaps should probably consider shaking the dust off his feet and going to work for the competition.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Hazel Grace — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:30:13 -0000

I used to work in fashion and you'd be amazed at how long it took for companies to decide that working on computers was more productive then doing everything by hand... not surprised at all by this, but the future is not looking very good for this company "Bob" is at and he should definitely go somewhere he will be rewarded for his efforts to stay on top of the cutting edge - or what some might call "reality" ;)

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Maintenance Man — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:06:43 -0000

I know how Bob feels. That's why I always interact with the public under a pseudonym. Often times people ask me who the heck I am in real life. Then I have to explain that the people who pay me have rules. And you know what the first rule about Fight Club is, right?

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

tim from Radio Clash — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:13:38 -0000

I had this very same experience 10 years ago, although I didn't post officially in the space (unofficially yes) and they went NUTS trying to find out who.

I even took Cluetrain Manifesto and gave it to the CEO - got into serious trouble for that. They really didn't have a clue...and were management consultants, people you'd expect to want to have 'conversations' and are probably all over social media now...but upto 5 years ago when I got out all online contacts - even responses to emails and posts of grad sites had to be vetoed. They even got stuff legally pulled off The Register.

So yeah companies like this will continue to be opaque and not get a 'clue' and listen to their own employees, let alone their customers...and yeah I eventually got the PIP. Nasty. I recommend leaving if you can - in this current economic climate like then it was hard and I stayed.

Wished I hadn't. Wasted year of my life...best go work for people who understand that social media and online interaction is probably what will save some companies from a fate worse that Woolworths - already it seems like with PC Magazine trad paper ad spend is going and online marketing is becoming the thing...

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Jen Zingsheim — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:56:45 -0000

Late to the party here, but a few thoughts:

One, Bob admits that he went against a directive to cease this activity. Really, all of the "ZOMG, social media & engagement are where it's at" doesn't matter one whit in this case. He is an employee, he was told to stop. As a manager, it would make me VERY unhappy if an employee went and did something that I specifically directed him not to do. It's not his decision to make.

Two, Fortune 500's aren't little companies. They are massive. Lots and lots of silos. This sort of thing--miscommunication between divisions--happens all the time. If Bob has a problem with the different silos, he needs to work within the established framework and address that, not make corporate decisions on his own. The comparison to the military is actually apt, at a big company you need people to, well, behave. If Bob gets to talk to customers, why can't I across 20K employees is a nightmare for some companies. It's the company's decision to make, not Bob's.

Three, "[...] that sells a product, an expensive product, the kind of thing that makes an Mercedes look like a value meal." If there's really that kind of money tied up in sales, then trust me, there is a very specific audience. This isn't Coke or Pepsi, and there is a great deal at stake if something is mishandled by Bob.

Interesting case, but if a company isn't ready (or for whatever reason doesn't want to) engage in social media, it's not, not, not up to an individual employee to make that decision.

Jen

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Philip John — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:51:13 -0000

Wow, I kinda feel sorry for Bob's company. They're going to lose out unless they pull themselves into the 21st century. I hope Bob is looking for a job in social media. If not, I feel sorry for him too.

Phil

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

John P. Kreiss — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:43:00 -0000

Poor Bob! He's in a tough situation as a social media advocate working at a place where the culture does not share his views.

I would recommend he put out feelers and expand his personal network. People should always be growing their networks because no few jobs offer lifetime guarantees.

In the meantime,if I were Bob, I'd focus on building internal relationships within the organization and begin to develop some alliances. Management feels that conversing with the customer online is dangerous. He may never be able to change this, but understanding why they feel this way would be a good place to start.

John P. Kreiss
MorganSullivan, Inc.
Business Solutions in Real Estate and Construction

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Infonote — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:35:36 -0000

I have a mixed feeling about this.

On one hand it is correct that Bob tried helping the company.
However he did the wrong thing by continuing to interact (in the name of the company).

Bob should have stopped when they told him so. After all if all the competitors start 'interacting online;, then Bob can say see I was right.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Sasha — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:42:12 -0000

I agree with Larzini and a few others completely. Unfortunately some Business owners or Corporate types of the biggest well known companies. s
Still have a mind set of complete Corporate Secrecy, keep everyone in the dark, the customers, the vendors, the investors and yes even the employees.

I say stay on course Bob...
Your gut instinct will guide you as what to do.

Was lucky enough to work for a Fortune 500 Company that let me triangle...Pulled in Vendors, Customers and Upper Echelons prompting them communicaticate honestly between each sector...Until it was no longer three sectors but one group working towards better quality, on time product deliveries, employee job satisfaction, customer satisfaction and input, vendor suggesting new ideas, products etc. Result? Company had 98% on time delivery-94% customer satisfaction and best of all Company saved $850,000.00 in raw material costs. (Dow Corning, GE. E.I. DuPont and Kodak being our biggest suppliers.

Planners, Engineers, Vendors, CEO types, Main Customers, Purchasing Mgr all in the loop at once? Unheard of! =)

If you dream it...
It can be done!

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

larzini — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:02:13 -0000

@Vicki: I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention that Bob's manager did not go to bat for him against a manager of another division. He could still address Bob with any dissatisfaction, but the other manager is sticking his nose in and undermining anything Bob's manager was allowing in the first place. We really don't know the other manager's motives, but by screaming "SLIPPERY SLOPE" and going over the head of Bob's manager as well, I have to question this manager and whether he may have it out for Bob in the first place.

It looks like all of the management's action have been to cater to this outside manager. So it sound like Bob doesn't have the people above him, that (1.) "get it", and (2.) have the backbone to do anything about it even if they did.

There is a saying somewhat akin to "begging for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission", and it certainly seems applicable to Bob's plight.

Reading stories of innovators you will often find insubordination as well as failures until success comes along. Innovation and rules make for strange bedfellows. Actually they don't always hang out at the same bar, so it's unlikely that they'll find themselves in the same bed. But what's happened here is that Bob has found something that has inspired him, and he developed a passion in his job that wasn't there before. And maybe this passion is just what Bob needed to realize that maybe this ain't the place for him, and he would be better off working somewhere else. And because of his own doing he can include the social media experience on his resume.

Bob and this company look like they will part ways. Bob might be able to put together a good argument for what he's doing, but if no one on the chain of command gets it, then Bob will be working somewhere else soon. But the whole situation could have gone another way where someone saw what Bob was doing, studied it, applied it with their group, built upon it, and come up with a whole new system for their business that was universally loved throughout the organization.

It could have panned out this way. But no one would ever know, unless Bob started doing what Bob was doing.

I'd rather be fired for being a "maverick" in a true sense and not as a politicized soundbite, than sitting in my cubicle clutching my red Swingline for dear life, waiting for the day the company decides I'm no longer useful.

Good luck, Bob.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Stacy — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:47:10 -0000

I feel for Bob. I am presently in a situation similar to his, only I haven't gone all-out representing my employer without his consent, not because I fear something similar to Bob's situation may happen, but because I already know that my ideas and my work are underappreciated as it is.

I work at a small interactive agency that desperately needs to be active in social media and would benefit from it immensely. My boss was grasping at straws trying to find leads and have more of a presence online, so naturally I asked him what he was doing as far as social media.

He literally laughed at me and said, "My clients are older than you." I kid you not. He's in the mindset that SM is just for young twenty-somethings with Facebook accounts.

So instead of trying to convince him otherwise and wasting my breath, I'm keeping my mouth shut and leaving soon. I'm not going to sit around and watch my employer lose business because he's not getting with the times. I have people who want my consultation and have decided to go out on my own, and if I end up stealing some of my current employer's clients down the road, well, it's his loss.

Rather than taking the natural steps that you'd expect an interactive agency to DO (evolve into using more social media), my old-school-minded boss rewound the clock a couple decades and hired a telemarketer. Somebody needs to tell him that 1985 called and wants its job back.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Mike — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:24:29 -0000

I agree with everyone who commented that Bob was in error continuing the conversation online after being told to stop. Let's talk trust here. Bob got permission to begin engaging the online community. But the company got scared, and his boss said "stop your end of the conversation." My guess here is Bob's boss took whatever heat at this point, as he should have, since he gave the original permission. But Bob didn't stop. The company shouldn't be demonized just because it won't get on board with social media. And why should we trust Bob, just because he claims he wasn't giving away company secrets? This tale ceased being about social media when Bob took it upon himself to ignore the directive from his boss. At that point, to me, it's about job performance. Just because it involves "social media" doesn't make it different. Would Bob have started running off full color flyers on his home computer and mailed them to the company's list of customers, all in the name of helping them? Sure, that would be cost-prohibitive, and Bob would probably not want to spend the money. Just because Bob now has, as we all have, a form of cheaper "broadcasting" capabilities, doesn't change the fact that he ignored what his boss told him to do.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Jodi — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:27:36 -0000

Sounds like poor "Bob" was a "unicorn in a balloon factory." (Yes, I have been reading Seth Godin and I'm hip dip in triiibes).

That said, it sounds to me like a great opportunity for the competition. "The Widget Weasals may not care about their customers, but Fizzbin Inc. does."

I hope "Bob" gets a new job soon!

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Ari Herzog — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:23:01 -0000

@Rufus: You may be correct that Bob has no tribe. But the company does; the tribe are the customers. Bob is one of many corporate voices, but one who understands the old saying, "The customer is right," and chooses to listen to them and be their so-called online leader.

@Jay: Keep in mind that Bob was originally given permission to engage with customers on an online forum. Maybe you're right and Bob should cease contact. He'd need to write a goodbye message on the forum, right? Maybe something like, "Hi guys, I've enjoyed talking to you but effective immediately, corporate management no longer wants me to talk to you. Have a good day."

That will end it. But is that something Bob's manager wants Bob to say? If Bob doesn't say it, the customers will keep asking questions on that online forum, there will be no response, and the phone calls will start pouring in referencing Bob.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Patty Azzarello — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:40:39 -0000

What Bob could have done differently:

If a company doesn't "get it", it doens't mean they can't and never will. The job of the social media types like Bob is to help the company "get it" in a way that will work, vs. a way that scares them.

1) Collect the customer feedback on the campaign or whatever is being talked about, and present it and say, "wow, this is great, people are talking about us"

2) Say, "there could be a big benefit to us if we participated" in this conversation.

3) Here is my proposal, I could jump into this stream, collect feedback, and answer questions. I would not mention any employees, or share any confidential information, just serve the customers.

4)Why don't we have a customer service manager sponsor this project, and follow along, so the company learns more.

5) I suggest a weekly review from (an executive) to make sure the conversation is adding value.

6) I volunteer to organize this, and lead our conversation.

There are many legal and brand issues companies have, and individuals talking directly to the public is scary for them.

What people like Bob need to remind (and show) them is that the conversation led by individuals about them is happening already, whether or not they participate.

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Rufus Dogg — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:46:58 -0000

@Gary Walter There is "getting it" and "getting sued." Once you get the latter, you are less inclined to do the former!

Re: Shut Up- You’re Helping the Customer!

Jack Repenning — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:08:02 -0000

@Danny Brown: I can't see any GOOD reason, either, but I believe it. I know two major computer hardware/software manufacturers, who you'd think would be better in tune, who explicitly forbid employees to discuss business matters in email outside the company's closed network. Even with partners. In this case, Bob was not only "discussing business matters," but arguably representing the company in public.

The moment you make someone responsible for security or corporate image, they discover that the surest way to prevent mistakes is to prevent anyone doing anything at all.

Social Media pundits sometimes have a strident, rather put-upon tone. There's a reason.