chrisbrogan.com - Latest Comments in Namecalling

Re: Namecalling

Jenn Mattern — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:20:17 -0000

These comments are made in a general sense (I haven't completely gone through, nor do I care to, Scoble's list).

I have a different approach than most - when I'm on a list that even attempts to act authoritative (any list that names the "top" this or that's based on poor metrics, or any list that claims to rank "influencers") I ask to be removed. Those lists add no real value, and taking pride in being a part of them is more ego than anything else - usually from those who don't understand how those metrics actually come into play.

At the same time if someone makes a list saying essentially "Here's who I personally read and who I think you might enjoy," I see nothing wrong with it. The list poster isn't attempting to create an authority air around themselves based on false metrics. They're giving their opinion - and as long as they are very transparent that it's a completely subjective list (I'm always surprised at how many subjective lists are passed along as objective), more power to them. At the same time, it's a completely different story when specific bloggers or groups of bloggers tend to do very little linking outside of a certain circle. Group back-patting and ass-kissing is sad to watch as a reader, and it gets very old very quickly. If you want to avoid turning off your readers only link to things that are exceptional or that are entirely relevant to a point you want to make, where there aren't better resources to be linking to. A part of our job as bloggers is to share new things with our readers - never stop venturing out.

I don't think people should feel offended not to be on every list. I also don't think they should feel like they have to strive towards that in order to feel validated in even a small way. They need to focus on their readership; not ego. I often wonder if those needing a back-pat periodically (you know... the ones who have to publicly tell their readers to vote for them in everything they can, the ones going on and on about being mentioned on some little blog or list via twitter endlessly, etc.) really have the spine to be a serious blogger at all.

Here's the way I look at it from the inclusion perspective too - I don't believe in going to a blog that ranked you well or blogged about you and then oozing thanks in their comments about how honored you are or some other fluff. Posting nothing but "Thanks for including me" or some other such nonsense really amounts to nothing more than spamming the Web with useless comments to carry your link - if it doesn't further the conversation in a way applicable to others reading the blog, you probably shouldn't be posting it. If you just want to say thanks, drop an email. You look less pathetic that way to everyone else reading that blog. Not much annoys me more than people just saying thanks, usually with the "Oh my god! Oh my god! I'm so excited you thought I was worth a measly little link!" tone to it. Actually say something, or don't comment. And if you must ooze thanks, make sure it's because someone actually had something to say about you - not just a link, but something in some decent, relevant context. And by all means, add to the conversation if they were decent enough to do that.

Re: Namecalling

Melanie Nelson — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:40:12 -0000

I think it really depends on the list. If it's from a reputable source, I take the list seriously. If it's a list I want to be on, I look at who's on it and what they're doing. If I can implement some of their best-practices, I do. There is no sense feeling left out--just work harder and learn from those that are on the list. I'm not a fan of all-inclusion every time. If we're all special, no one is and you're losing site of what you can learn.

Re: Namecalling

Kevin Cimring — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:42:33 -0000

I don't think its always healthy to worry about being on a list that others may be on. You have to focus on your own golf game. If you're not on a list that you aspire to be on, be careful not to lose your individuality by saying what you think people want to hear in order make the list. Otherwise we'd all be saying and doing the same things. Rather focus on your game with tenacity and persistence and you'll likely make the list anyway without compromising yourself.

Re: Namecalling

Liana — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:05:55 -0000

I enjoy reading your lists, Chris. I feel like the only responsibility you have is to make it known that this is YOUR list. And, you always do that.

I take personal responsibility for not being on a list I think I should be on and determine what I need to do to be included the next time, if that's what I want.

I could also make my own list of people who influence me. It's a personal thing to be affected by someone. The list may not be the same for everyone.

Re: Namecalling

Craig — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:52:55 -0000

When I see a list and our competitors are on it and I am not, I think of what I can do to get my company on the list for the next cover story. I begin by first observing the competitors and seeing what they do differently and how our company supplies different benefits for our niche. Then I will go out of my way to try to email the author and to present our company with a different angle compared to competitors and to show the value of covering our company as well and how it will benefit their readers.

Craig
www.budgetpulse.com

Re: Namecalling

Des Walsh — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:29:29 -0000

First, congratulations Chris on being on the list. We all like to be noticed.

I'm always amazed when people respond publicly to such lists with - as one actually did and others in so many words with a "what am I, chopped liver?" My attitude is, if she/he didn't notice, she/he didn't notice, get over it. But I guess I understand the point made here by Beth Dunn - better to speak up than nurse a grudge.

Still, for any list acknowledging me as of being interesting for someone I'd like to have been top of mind in the first place.

I think there's a third option, as indicated by Julie Bonner, the "try harder" option.

Then too, there is the principle espoused by 4 Hour Work Week's Tim Ferriss (BlogWorld08 keynote) to work on being interested rather than interesting.

I can be dispassionate about The Scobleizer's list because I'm not a techie :).

Re: Namecalling

Nicholas Chase — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:20:13 -0000

Chris,

How true! Now my name is soon to be added to the dot com lifestyle meltdown.

I was 'the video guy' at BlogWorld Expo 2008.

I volunteered my videography services to BlogWorld, in the hope that I could receive some personal wise counsel, from thought-leaders as yourself, in my on-line business direction and focus.

Your panel(s) were thought-provoking and informative, Thank you!

Been blogging for three months, with eight blogs and counting, and winning the Market Leverage dinner with Shoemoney and John Chow was awesome for a newbie like me.

I did not want to share my financial difficulties at such an upbeat, energizing and lively event.

Now our family are at a crossroads, corporate America is not calling as often, capital expenditures have tanked due to the economy, and blogging has resurrected my long dormant writing skills.

My core skill set and engineering expertise is in senior technical project management and broadcast systems design engineering.

Do you have any suggestions to ramp-up my income by writing eZine article, HubPages or should I forget the whole thing?

Respectfully,

Nicholas - 'the video guy' at BlogWorld Expo 2008

Re: Namecalling

Stephen Hopson — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:58:54 -0000

I find this subject to be an interesting topic because it pertains to the notion that all of us want to be accepted and listed among others who are perceived to have a certain good reputation.

I am aware of how I feel when I see my name listed among people who are respected. Of course, it makes me feel good to be on that list because subsconsciously it's a way of getting validated. Every human being on this planet wants some kind of validation.

That's why if they think their name should be on some kind of list, whether they realize it or not, if the list is considered "Who's Who.....", they are going to feel somewhat miffed.

I am painfully aware of this human characteristic trait when writing on my blog. I'm the kind of person, like you, to recognize people and give them credit where due but I cannot possibly list everyone. So I have to take great care in the selection of those who will be listed. Often times, I'll write in something like "these names are listed in random order or I'll say they were randomly selected (maybe names pulled out of a hat or something like that).

Interesting subject, to be sure. One other thing. When someone like you recognizes a person, I would venture to say that person feels GREAT because of who you are. You are perceived to be a celebrity in this field you're in. It's all a matter of perception, isn't it?

Re: Namecalling

Wesley — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 19:07:39 -0000

I know that I'm not worthy of being on any lists so I've never been too bothered about them. I don't think I've ever been on a list in my life.

Re: Namecalling

Gina Kay Landis — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:43:56 -0000

Oh, I just feel like I'm not as experienced with social/new media as I'd like to be. That said, my time is spent in all sorts of ways, and social/new media is one part of it. I'd like it to be a bigger part, but I don't currently go to blog events, nor do I have the best/latest/greatest tech equipment. Still working on a blog, but am finding I have so many interests it's not going to be totally about social/new media, not totally real estate, not totally anything. Kinda like that, though. I'll continue to investigate social/new media to see how it will help my business and my brokerage, as well as the world at large. Make a splash? I dunno if that's my goal anyway. Let's just do what we can and make a difference.

Re: Namecalling

Robert Rowe — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:11:50 -0000

Chris, you were also "listed" on the "100+ (E-)Learning Professionals to follow on Twitter" (http://www.c4lpt.co.uk/soci... list (I found it via Alec Couros). I do find lists occasionally useful, but just because a creator of a list values someone's importance (or lack of importance), doesn't mean their readers do as well, so I take it all with a grain of salt.

Re: Namecalling

Nicky — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:50:36 -0000

@Andy - your point is an excellent one.

In an ideal world each person would reply to every email/question they got, but the more you get the less it's possible - unless replying to email is your full time job. I also think we have to filter to a large extent.

I personally think if people have gone to the trouble of emailing you they deserve a reply - their time is important too (sheep and bacon aside, as I simply have no time to be returning sheep or pokes, et al. on FB, while I do respond to messages, posts etc). I tend to reply to all my non-business related email, sometimes within hours if the reply is short, usually within a week, sometimes longer... it depends on the question, but thankfully it's not coming from thousands of followers and friends, so it's managable - so far.
I've sent email to people and, depending on my question if it takes up to two weeks to respond it doesn't bother me. Usually I get a response within a week which I consider pretty good.

@Chris, here's something I've experienced on a popular developer's blog... whenever I sent him an email asking a question I got an auto message saying they did appreciate my email, but that due to the volume of email he gets it might be a while before he responded. It set my expectations, and in fact they actually replied in a few hours.

Re: Namecalling

Joe Budde Jr — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:37:09 -0000

It is sad that brief generalizations rule the world. But for us to attempt to make sense of this illogical world where rational decisions do not reign it is a necessary evil for us to progress as a society.

A more interesting generalization is the question of Name. Does your name make you a social media sultan? (per Robert)

Chris, it does for you! And for the Mikes of the world, but it doesn't for us Joes!

Re: Namecalling

Michael Martine, Blog Consulta — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:20:39 -0000

@Chris - Call me "Captain Obvious"! :)

Re: Namecalling

Nicky — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:12:46 -0000

Oh, and my "red" should be "read."

Re: Namecalling

Nicky — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:11:12 -0000

My first thought when I red your post is that selective lists are, by their very nature exclusive and it's natural for people to want to feel included and above all recognized. When a list is largely someone's opinion then it's probably a waste of energy worrying about why you're not on it... unless it is really important to you to BE on it and hurts your ego if you're not.

I believe there is a way to lessen the potential for "offence" and that is list clearly the parameters for getting on to said list. They don't seem to be too clear in this one - except that "tech stuff" seems to be a component and "Scoble liking them" another. I found the list interesting because it gave me ideas for people I may check out. Other than that I prefer lists where several people have voted - it lessens the personal slant and seems somehow more equitable. I suspect this list is getting tons of attention because it's Scoble's list.

Having said that, if you really feel you - or someone you know is deserving of being on said list, it does say you can ask for them to be added. Ask nicely now ;) don't whine and complain.

Re: Namecalling

chrisbrogan — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:02:07 -0000

That's how I roll, Michael. But then, you knew that. : )

Re: Namecalling

Michael Martine, Blog Consulta — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:57:46 -0000

LOL on "throw a few extra people under the bus". I can see how a person could justify "nominating" someone else besides themselves for inclusion to a list, but to suggest oneself is ego-whining at its best (well, worst, actually).

Besides, THAT'S WHAT COMMENTS ARE FOR. Just a simple line in the post like: "If you can think of anyone else who should be on this list, please add their name in a comment."

Re: Namecalling

chrisbrogan — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:38:39 -0000

@marti - you're right about the whining and begging part.

Re: Namecalling

marti garaughty — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:30:30 -0000

hi Chris, we're dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. A lot of my online contacts including clients, people I network with, etc... occasionally show up in my posts but only if and when it's appropriate and adds something to the conversation.

People who whine and beg for attention sometimes get it but for all the wrong reasons.

Re: Namecalling

Shonali Burke — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:21:57 -0000

If it's one I care about, and really believe I should be on, I pay attention to the process that's required to get on the list - and then I give it my best shot. I have no qualms about pulling in friends/supporters if that's going to bolster it.

I do think two things that make a difference in making/not making such lists are:

1) How you position yourself on a day-to-day basis, because that adds up to your public presence (and why you should/shouldn't be on the list) over time; and
2) Having a presence with the "movers and shakers" of that particular space. In the old days it was called networking (sometimes it still is!), today it's who your "friends" or "followers" are - but it's still essentially the same thing.

At the end of the day, the fundamentals of who you are and how you make a difference are what's going to separate you from the next person. Flash and glitz are never adequate or successful substitutes for substance and truth.

No matter how many lists there are, there's always going to be at least one that you're not on, that you cared about. And when that happens - give in to your rage/grief/whatever, work through it, and move on. Most of the time, it's just someone's opinion, right? Not being on "the" list may have wounded your ego, but if you're still healthy, sane, solvent, have a roof over your head and food on your table, then it didn't really hurt you, did it? Tomorrow is another day, and will bring more lists that may be better!

Re: Namecalling

chrisbrogan — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:05:02 -0000

@Andy - Interesting question to ask. Let me answer it for myself. Over the last 9 days, I was in five different cities. For the last five of the nine, I wasn't in the same place for more than 24 hours. I went from having Inbox Zero to Inbox 491. I'm still trying to weed through.

So, for me personally, no, I can't reply to every email any longer. It's not sheep and other bacn. It's all actionable stuff that people want thoughtful responses to, and I can't answer them all. There's no staff here. Just a dude with a family, a day job, and several thousand passionate friends.

I try, and I get there eventually, but it just doesn't scale. Still working on how to scale it up.

Tim Ferriss from Four Hour Work Week got back to me a week or so after I emailed him, and that felt reasonable to me. He's a NY Times Bestseller list guy, so he's got even larger scale issues.

As time goes on, we'll figure it out. Great point to raise, Andy.

Re: Namecalling

Michael Bailey — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:03:42 -0000

@BethDunn That is some great advice, and a healthy attitude to have. We can only trust that they do exist, and keep on trying.

Re: Namecalling

Beth Dunn — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:58:53 -0000

If there's one thing I've learned lately, it's that people aren't mind-readers. But they are usually remarkably willing to listen if you speak up. So when I see a list that I think I should be on, I say something. Sitting around, nursing a perceived slight is not helping me OR the people who might like to hear about me, assuming they exist.

So I speak up. This world is a pretty big place, and you have to speak up and introduce yourself over and over and over again. Good news is, you get better at it with practice.

Re: Namecalling

Brandon Mulnix — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:52:12 -0000

Chris,

The reason you are on so many lists is because you speak the truth. You are honest about the topics you are talking about. I know what its like to be left out of things that I would really like to be part of. Instead of complaining I work harder to make the connections it takes to get on those lists. I am a new to most of the areas that I feel I should be recognized for, but I forget all about that when the list comes out.
For me its in the photography world. I have been to small 10 studio schools where the instructor will pick out one person who for the next few months she will talk about to everyone. The example for us was about blogging. The instructor picked out a photographer who had only been blogging for about 6 months and called her the expert on blogging in the group. Not once were we mentioned and we had been blogging for over a year and actually could help others set up their own. She didn't set hers up, someone else did.
We get reminded of this monthly when we see this studio now doing webinars on a national level about how to blog and why they are so successful at it.

People as a whole can only be in so many right places at so many times, but they have to keep trying. It will pay off if you do know what you are talking about.

Keep up the great posts
Brandon