chrisbrogan.com - Latest Comments in Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Web hosting — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:11:13 -0000

Good comment by Jason as usual! "The challenge I'm finding is convincing the marketers I work with that social media is different and it isn't about hard line, quantifiable facts. That is is about discussion, conversation and exploration more so than recognition, request and conversion.

I have said, "In order to wrap your brain around social media, you have to take everything you've learned about marketing and throw it out the window," about three dozen times this month. Approaching social media as a marketer will make you fail (as you've pointed out above).

While I'm making headway, I'd love to learn some tricks on how to break through the thick-headedness of some marketers to see that.

Sharing this article with them will help. Thanks Chris.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

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Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

linke69 — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:30:47 -0000

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Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

linke69 — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:26:07 -0000

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Peter Godinez — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:32:55 -0000

Social Media sure is evolving fast. I liked your efforts in comparing marketing and social media. Social Media is definitely more affordable to traditional media. The 2 can be definitely be combined. I have lived in a traditional way of selling and I hope social media will be a vital part of why consumers buy.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

SEO Experts India — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:16:43 -0000

Well Said Chris, its true that selling SMO concept to marketers is tough.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Matt — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:02:09 -0000

Well I just stumbled here - if that says anything about social media...

great post on some of the differences and I think a lot of marketers diving into the social media world should read it.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Erick — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:10:33 -0000

Good long meandering post about semantic differences between marketing and social media, but your disclaimer is instructive.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Jay — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:42:09 -0000

Good post Chris! But you're wrong!

In the web2.0 world, where your first attempt at any experience is to Google for information and then stumbleupon brands, as a brand marketer you should be creating the keywords out of the social media conversations.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

John Cass — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:04:01 -0000

You are right the marketing is not social media, where we define social media as just a tool. Marketing is really more about strategy. However, as you suggest the social media movement is not just about tools, it is about a way of communicating with people and a community. Now I will concede that most marketers are only thinking about campaigns and tools. The recent report from Forrester Research seems to indicate that. But I think you are missing something here about the marketing concept. A big part of the concept is listening to customers, and enacting what you learn. From that process companies are better able to market their products. In my experience those companies that focus on listening; product development and customer service are usually the companies that receive the most benefits from social media. Macromedia was the company for me that really demonstrated how a company could use listening to use marketing strategy within social media. While Dell's example continues to amaze me.

To me social media, the tools, and the way of communicating finally make it easier, and likely for a generation of business people to actually do marketing as the concept is defined. Though the reality is that the tools were never needed, just the willingness to implement the strategy.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

jon b — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:54:06 -0000

While I appreciate the difference between Marketing and Social Media, I believe that the lines can be successfully crossed so long as we're willing to rethink everything.

Marketers are traditionally brand centric.

Social media is all about the social experience, the social interaction.

In the mind of a social media user, it's all about the connectivity.

Marketers can successfully engage in social media if they are willing to adapt their practices into an opt-in social engineering type role. Movements have been created around brands and BY MARKETERS.

Isn't this marketing in social media?

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Debs — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:48:18 -0000

Chris - love the analogy of carpenter vs hammer!

I will add that the rules of the road are changing - for now everyone views the initial impact of social media as it relates to marketing [kinda like how websites were just marketing brochures till someone woke up to selling stuff thru em.;) ]

The true impact of all this social media stuff is much deeper than marketing - it is business changing. But --heh - you already know that [jumping off soapbox!]

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Ryan Karpeles — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:38:50 -0000

Great post, Chris. And some amazing comments as well. Personally I don't think marketing and social media are mutually exclusive. But I do believe there is a (very) fine line between the two.

While social media isn't nearly as measurable, it certainly gives a much richer context and insight into how people live their lives. This is what many marketers fail to understand.

Social media isn't about generating leads, discovering prospects, or pushing any old-school marketing tactics on anyone. It's about listening and understanding. Sharing and connecting. Giving and then giving some more.

Any marketer who treats this as just another "channel" is in for a rough time. Social media shouldn't be used to spread your message. It should be used to understand the messages that other people are spreading. And with this understanding will come better marketing.

So while the two aren't entirely dichotomous, some marketers should continue to keep them at a distance. At least until they realize what this space is all about.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Eric : Gardenfork.tv — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:45:00 -0000

a friend of mine recently proclaimed that all social media is is another form of advertising. I told him he was wrong, something along the lines of what chris says here:

[social media enables] "access to potential audiences of shared interest."

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Gaurav Mishra — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:10:27 -0000

Great Post Chris!

I agree that marketing is not social media and social media is a very small part of marketing.

Here's a post that captures my point of view on how engagement is only one part of marketing and how social media is only one tool to build engagement -- Is Customer Service the New Marketing? Of Course Not!.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Howard Greenstein — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:51:42 -0000

Dan Schawbel said: Social media is a channel marketing can use to tell a story.

Dan: Saying Social Media is a channel is like saying the web is a channel. Sorry, that's not the case. Social Media is blogs and podcasts, social networks and social sharing sites.
Each of these different sub-media, or media, have their own rules, language and cultures. Just as you can't just wipe out a wikipedia entry and replace it with blather, you don't want, as a marketer, to approach a Social Media domain without taking time to understand it.
Social media consultant folks are like the translators who also tell you culture - the people who say "Don't name your car 'NoVa' in South America because that means 'won't go' in Spanish.

And yet, I see marketers on a constant basis doing just that.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Teresa Boardman — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:27:02 -0000

I use social media to learn how to market

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

chrisbrogan — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:48:03 -0000

@Jason Falls- I hope others here give some good advice to helping with that challenge.

@Gavin- I hope both groups of folks are listening, because there are lots of "hippies" in social media, thinking they're changing the world just by wearing the "clothes." But yes, I think there is some crossover learning to be had.

@Chris Heuer- Glad to have you stop by, and you raise a good point. There's a movement behind the tools, and skills that make use of those tools. It's definitely more than just tools. I like your quote from the YouTube thing.

@EricWeaver- that's an interesting point, and you're right. Social networks make it very easy to find the like-minded pockets that marketers are targeting. You're equally right that using the social network channel to then attack those pockets would be looked upon badly. Maybe, you'd take the info back to the traditional marketing channels, use the knowledge to do a better attack vector, and then it would still be traditional marketing, informed by a little attention.

@Caleb- metrics are a huge problem in social media. It's like asking how influential any single conversation is in changing one's thinking. Real hard to quantify.

@Melody - I cook occasionally, but not as often with the hours I keep. Why do you ask?

@Susan- Marketers are wonderful people with a lot to offer the universe. They continue to influence my buying decisions, and help companies get their products and services SEEN and absorbed. Why knock that? I just don't like BAD marketers.

@DrMani- remember that time you sent out an email blast and I twittered something? You mentioned that Twitter seemed to have the better impact. Probably so, and yet, if I twittered out marketing messages all the time, the value would go right downhill. So, it's still something to be considered, because the TACTIC in marketing to blast repeatedly might fail in both mediums.

@Whitney and Mack- I couldn't agree more with the notion that traditional marketing have lots to learn from integrating with communities. Whether it applies to their money-making part of their work, or if it just helps them better understand their prey (as Sam above puts it), they should still be there.

@Morriss- well said. : )

@Albert- #2 is easier to solve. Tools like Radian6 make that easier than it was before. Bottom line impact is a little tricker. It doesn't stack up the way other campaigns can be measured, at least theoretically measured. I'd offer that this is one of those "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" things.

@Susan - thanks for the link. I think everyone should swing by and check it out.

You've all raised so many interesting points. I would love to hear more from marketers and even other social media practitioners. Feel free to point folks to this post (but ESPECIALLY the conversation in the comments) so we can get other perspectives.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

chrisbrogan — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:32:19 -0000

@Sam- hello from the prey! I couldn't agree more about your point that I'm speaking from that point of view. And your blog post is fascinating and potentially useful.

But here's the funny thing about the analogy overall, and maybe it does apply, maybe it doesn't.

Predators are quite often endangered animals at this point. Certain species of sharks are under threat of being overfished; tigers in some parts are being developed out of their territories. There are countless examples of us dumb prey accidentally screwing up the experience for the hunters.

Upon re-reading my post, what's funny is that it appears you didn't really read it. I never say that social media is better than marketing. I never say that you need to do what we're doing. My point, laid out repeatedly without a whole lot of flailing, is that they are different methods.

I mentioned that social media types could learn from marketers. I mentioned that marketers couldn't apply their traditional thinking to using the tools of social media. From the title down, that's been the thrust of the argument.

So, go forth and don't change and enjoy your full belly. There are plenty of folks still willingly accepting the traditional tactics. And yet, marketers are flooding into the social media space to try and learn the tools, so that must mean something. Ice age?

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Sam Freedoms Internet Marketin — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:59:52 -0000

CHRIS,

You don't seem to understand marketers yet you suggest that marketers use social media to try to understand you better.

Why? Is that their goal, to be more understanding?

Why don't you tell an alligator, or a tiger that they should try to understand a zebra better when all that holds their interest is satisfying a sense of hunger in their belly?

If you continue suggesting that they consider you differently, then you are asking them to forsake rules that have kept their bellies full and their and, instead, to adopt your rules.

Knowing this, if you want them to change, you have to first change in such a way that they can't ignore and, then, once you have their attention, you have to beat them at their own game...

...and only then can you begin to speak to them of another way.

Only when they are subdued will they become receptive... and that is, IF they're not too far gone.

You have a point in there somewhere, Chris, but you're flailing about a little bit and could use a little more help refining it. Right now, you're speaking to predators in the language of prey.

Sam
They Myth and Fallacy of Social Media

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Susan, The Marketing Eggspert — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:06:31 -0000

Ahh. This post was as refreshing as a cold glass of water. As a marketer, I try to straddle the fence between traditional and what I call Marketing 2.0. But honestly, some people aren't ready for the latter. Social media is one of many tools in our belts, but will it get what you want?

Check out my post, "Should I Use Social Networking as a Marketing Tool?" http://www.eggmarketingblog...
I learned the hard way that it might not do what I expected it to do.

And I really dug what you said about being open to being marketed/advertised to, while at the same time being open to companies using social media as a way to find out about YOU. It's just like physical networking. You don't talk about yourself, you ask questions.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Mack Collier — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:55:40 -0000

"Here’s the rub, marketers answer to managers and boards, etc. They like graphs, no not just social media graphs that shows influence, links, brand extension, but graphs that tie to revenue or the potential for revenue.

So, the issue as I see it is two-fold 1) how can we graphically translate, “the conversation” to “The bottom line”

Exactly, Albert. Social media is still hard to sell to so many companies because they can't see how it directly impacts the balance sheet. We can talk about 'joining the conversation' and 'more efficient marketing due to better understanding your customers' all we want, but companies aren't listening.

Until they can understand how it directly impacts the bottom line, many companies will wait and see. And lose out to companies that are dipping their toes in the waters now.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Dan Schawbel — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:03:43 -0000

Social media is a channel marketing can use to tell a story.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

jennifer jones — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:22:30 -0000

Chris, As a marketer for more than two decades, I found this post so succinct and very thoughtful. I have had this "debate" with marketers myself over the last two years but you have stated it very well. Thanks for sharing the thought.

Re: Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

Susan Getgood — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:49:18 -0000

As someone has already pointed out, at its root, marketing is all about sellers and buyers meeting to exchange things of value with each other -- originally, goods in a true exchange, now generally products and money :-)

The rise of mass media and the intermediation model, where sellers no longer spoke directly with buyers, instead speaking through the MEDIA, changed the dynamic and created the "consumer." Which has to be just about the worst word in our marketing arsenal. No longer people, companies thought of us simply as consumers of their products.

What social media does is bring marketing back to its roots. Once again we can engage directly with our customers in meaningful ways. The first thing I tell people is to strike the word consumer from their vocabulary. That more than anything else seems to get the mind shift working.