For me, a social site's draw is its user base. So, features are secondary. A nonsocial site can draw me in with neat features but I still visit a relative inept, dysfunctional message board because there are people I have known for 10 years who post there.
If a critical mass of them moved on, I'd stop visiting it but it would have to be a large number. Like Twitter, unless you're someone who gets extremely frustrated with incompetent design, I think most people can get over some minor quirks in an application/website/network if that is where their social network is located.
Marina Martin
· 1 year ago
This is why federation is SO important, particularly with microblogging. If you leave Twitter, you lose your community. If you're on Identi.ca, you can move to any other instance and take your community with you.
I'm hoping to be the human bridge that moves some people over to federated microblogging sites (of which Identi.ca is the most popular at the moment).
Allison White
· 1 year ago
For a bookmarking Web site, it would have to offer greater organization AND a way to transport my bookmarks from del.icio.us to the new one.
I don't really use the "social" aspect of Delicious, so none of those features would really draw me in.
nateritter
· 1 year ago
I think it has everything to do with adopting the other brand. If Magnolia said "sure, we can support, post, grab any delicious links" then they'd have me. Also, if Identi.ca supported Twitter, I'd move.
If a service with better openness supports the service with all the people, then there's no reason to simply stay with the service with all the people (only) because you get both by going with the better feature service.
Proof of concept, Apple supports Windows (through VM Ware, Parallels, and now their new "we'll move your files over for you" campaign). Winner? Apple. Windows stays in their own little game and tries to keep people, rather than reaching out and helping people use/move what they already own. Not an exact metaphor, but you get the idea.
Dale Cruse
· 1 year ago
I use Magnolia exclusively for my bookmarking needs. It's prettier than Delicious, I like the UI better, and it allows for people to send "thank you"'s when they find a link of yours they really like. Plus, I think Magnolia is where all the cool kids are.
Thanks for posting this, Chris! I'm really excited about what will come of this. Plans? Who knows...that's the beauty of opening things up.
Just so you know, I'm just the community consultant on this. Larry and Todd (who couldn't make it to Gnomedex) have been working long and hard on this. I had dinner with Larry a few weeks ago who showed me what they've done and I got so excited I convinced him to come announce it at Gnomedex. :)
Tina B. Tessina, PhD "Dr. Roma
· 1 year ago
It's one thing for all you web-savvy people to be jumping from site to site; but what's needed is for people who are intimidated and turned off to be turned on. Twitter and sites like it are too elitist -- it's not easy to figure it out, and for people who are not so experienced on the Internet, it feels impossible. Empathy is needed if these sites are to become truly democratic and open. If these sites all connected together through a welcoming, simple to understand portal, they'd be a lot more inviting.
Gary S. Walter
· 1 year ago
Malcom Gladwell, in his book The Tipping Point says it is about Connectors, Information Mavens, and Salesmen. As I look over the projects I've been involved in, I couldn't agree more.
What I've noticed here in the Portland Twitter/Tech/Creative community is that we have a lot of connections, and several infovores, but we lack salespeople. In fact, I believe this is what socialnetorking in general is missing - salespeople, vision casters, promoters, etc.
We early adopters are growing bored with the lack of growth in Web2.0, however, the majority of the human race doesn't even know the beauty of these tools. What we have is great - connected information, however, we need to promote this to more people.
Once this takes off with the general population, it will no longer be a zero-sum game. There is plenty of room for more products.
frank
· 1 year ago
Moving it tough if there are good tools already in the market ...
If the 'newer' tool doesn’t do something better or more intuitively it's hard to make a case to move ... especially if you have been using something for a long time and it meets your needs.
Change for the better (i.e. 'tagging' vs. folders) will generally take time ... and there will be a lot of late adopters, but if the tool is good the humans will come.
Chris Baskind
· 1 year ago
Ma.gnolia is a great service, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out. The big difference between Ma.gnolia and (for instance) Delicious is the well-developed community. It's a very social social bookmarking engine.
By the way, Nate, Ma.gnolia *will* import your existing Delicious collection.
Goldie Katsu
· 1 year ago
I think it really depends on the tool and how we use it. Messaging systems, like twitter, really depend on who is there. I'm sometimes on identi.ca but, um, you (ok, and a few other people I want to listen to) aren't there so I keep checking twitter and posting to twitter because of the people.
For a bookmark tool, although the social piece is there it isn't as critical. As long as I can link it into an aggregator (like friendfeed) or find a useful way to share the updates I can make the information be where the people I care about are.
That said, the open features are great for new adapters and will get some people joining them from other services, but what would really move me - in addition to features that would make it better - is an easy way to get my data over to it without having to do the work. I use delicious because that's what I started using and it works for me and it is easy to get the bookmarks in. To move - show me it gives me more and don't make me work to get my information together again.
So who's there is a piece, but less so than some other services, and this is in part because of agreggators like friendfeed (or even jaiku).
Jim @ jaxtr
· 1 year ago
Honestly, I think business development deals to get new stuff in front of the eyes of people using older, more familiar sites is a really untapped opportunity. That way all the people still using AOL, for instance, can be exposed to the new tools (there are quite a few AOL users--please refrain from the obligatory AOL joke. No I'm not one of them =). Otherwise, it goes back to the usual word of mouth from people to people and the key influencers who tell their friends.
Ari Herzog
· 1 year ago
Hold on a minute. I'd like to respond to Tina Tessina who wrote above that "Twitter and sites like it are too elitist" and lack a welcoming portal. Isn't that what FriendFeed and Plaxo and their ilk have the potential to be developed into?
But more important is Tina's description of you Chris, and me, and others as "you web-savvy people." Tina, the fact you are posting a comment on a blog implies you are also web-savvy, so what am I again? I'm no different than you, seeking a user-friendly service or tool that can help me succeed.
Tina B. Tessina, PhD "Dr. Roma
· 1 year ago
Oh Please, Ari -- don't be so uptight. I meant that all of you share your knowledge of the Web, and it blinds you to what the rest of the world is doing -- or more important, not doing. I never heard of FriendFeed before I came here, and as far as I know, Plaxo is something that asks a lot of questions I may not want to answer, because I don't know what it's used for. The majority of the world, even people who e-mail and have websites, don't know what all this is about. I am a professional writer, and most of my journalist friends are mystified about all this stuff. I was just trying to give you some awareness. How are people to find out about Twitter, FriendFeed (I still don't know whta it is) and the other stuff if they don't know you guys? And who's helping? Chris made a great post about using Twitter for business that was really helpful to me, and I found Chris's tweets through a friend who blogs and found out through a blogging conference. But this stuff isn't nearly as well known as you think it is, and that's a shame. Don't keep it to yourself-- spread the word, and offer more info than just that it exists.
I agree with Jim that it's an untapped business opportunity.
Ari Herzog
· 1 year ago
Tina, I am in 100 percent agreement with you. There is a huge digital divide and I'm not even talking about the Navajo living in northeastern Arizona or tribal villages in rural Madagascar. I taught my mother how to use email ten years ago and while she reads my blog and understands some of the technological topics I write about, she doesn't always grasp what everything means.
Chris Brogan, in his recent Sky News video interview, talks about the progression from bullhorn to party hat as a means of explaining the progression from so-called Web 1.0 marketing to social media and personal branding. I recently shared this analogy with my mom and she got it. Thanks, Chris!
In my own way, on my own blog, I try to open up the world's eyes and ears as to what "all of this" is all about and what it means. But like you, I learn a new thing every day... and you've reminded me of the world needing more cowbell to continue amplifying Magnolia, Twitter, FriendFeed, Firefox, and everything else that a lot of people may have heard of, may not have heard of, but ought to know the value of.
Tina B. Tessina, PhD "Dr. Roma
· 1 year ago
Thanks, Ari:
Your mom is exactly the kind of person I was talking about, and thanks for the reminder of "more cowbell" I loved watching the skit again on Youtube.
There are so many more people who would benefit from using more social networking, if it were more widely available and made easier to learn. Twitter might sound easy to all of you, but it's difficult to figure out the inside information if you're not steeped in this stuff.
I do think there's money to be made in creating an easy-to-use portal with step-by-step instructions in plain English.
Ari Herzog
· 1 year ago
If you haven't seen it, if anyone reading this hasn't seen it, here is a link to a YouTube video titled, "Twitter in Plain English." Very useful that explains the basics.
Tina B. Tessina, PhD "Dr. Roma
· 1 year ago
Ari, that is so helpful! I have posted the link and Chris's "50 Ideas on Using Twitter for Business" on my professional writer's board. Thank you.
All Comments
If a critical mass of them moved on, I'd stop visiting it but it would have to be a large number. Like Twitter, unless you're someone who gets extremely frustrated with incompetent design, I think most people can get over some minor quirks in an application/website/network if that is where their social network is located.
I'm hoping to be the human bridge that moves some people over to federated microblogging sites (of which Identi.ca is the most popular at the moment).
I don't really use the "social" aspect of Delicious, so none of those features would really draw me in.
If a service with better openness supports the service with all the people, then there's no reason to simply stay with the service with all the people (only) because you get both by going with the better feature service.
Proof of concept, Apple supports Windows (through VM Ware, Parallels, and now their new "we'll move your files over for you" campaign). Winner? Apple. Windows stays in their own little game and tries to keep people, rather than reaching out and helping people use/move what they already own. Not an exact metaphor, but you get the idea.
Interestingly, when the site first started, they had celebrity bookmarkers like Alton Brown (http://ma.gnolia.com/people/AltonBrown) and Ted Allen (http://ma.gnolia.com/people/TedAllen). I thought the site was going to emphasize the social aspect more, but they've moved away from it, IMO.
Just so you know, I'm just the community consultant on this. Larry and Todd (who couldn't make it to Gnomedex) have been working long and hard on this. I had dinner with Larry a few weeks ago who showed me what they've done and I got so excited I convinced him to come announce it at Gnomedex. :)
What I've noticed here in the Portland Twitter/Tech/Creative community is that we have a lot of connections, and several infovores, but we lack salespeople. In fact, I believe this is what socialnetorking in general is missing - salespeople, vision casters, promoters, etc.
We early adopters are growing bored with the lack of growth in Web2.0, however, the majority of the human race doesn't even know the beauty of these tools. What we have is great - connected information, however, we need to promote this to more people.
Once this takes off with the general population, it will no longer be a zero-sum game. There is plenty of room for more products.
If the 'newer' tool doesn’t do something better or more intuitively it's hard to make a case to move ... especially if you have been using something for a long time and it meets your needs.
Change for the better (i.e. 'tagging' vs. folders) will generally take time ... and there will be a lot of late adopters, but if the tool is good the humans will come.
By the way, Nate, Ma.gnolia *will* import your existing Delicious collection.
For a bookmark tool, although the social piece is there it isn't as critical. As long as I can link it into an aggregator (like friendfeed) or find a useful way to share the updates I can make the information be where the people I care about are.
That said, the open features are great for new adapters and will get some people joining them from other services, but what would really move me - in addition to features that would make it better - is an easy way to get my data over to it without having to do the work. I use delicious because that's what I started using and it works for me and it is easy to get the bookmarks in. To move - show me it gives me more and don't make me work to get my information together again.
So who's there is a piece, but less so than some other services, and this is in part because of agreggators like friendfeed (or even jaiku).
But more important is Tina's description of you Chris, and me, and others as "you web-savvy people." Tina, the fact you are posting a comment on a blog implies you are also web-savvy, so what am I again? I'm no different than you, seeking a user-friendly service or tool that can help me succeed.
I agree with Jim that it's an untapped business opportunity.
Chris Brogan, in his recent Sky News video interview, talks about the progression from bullhorn to party hat as a means of explaining the progression from so-called Web 1.0 marketing to social media and personal branding. I recently shared this analogy with my mom and she got it. Thanks, Chris!
In my own way, on my own blog, I try to open up the world's eyes and ears as to what "all of this" is all about and what it means. But like you, I learn a new thing every day... and you've reminded me of the world needing more cowbell to continue amplifying Magnolia, Twitter, FriendFeed, Firefox, and everything else that a lot of people may have heard of, may not have heard of, but ought to know the value of.
Your mom is exactly the kind of person I was talking about, and thanks for the reminder of "more cowbell" I loved watching the skit again on Youtube.
There are so many more people who would benefit from using more social networking, if it were more widely available and made easier to learn. Twitter might sound easy to all of you, but it's difficult to figure out the inside information if you're not steeped in this stuff.
I do think there's money to be made in creating an easy-to-use portal with step-by-step instructions in plain English.