Chris Brogan: If Communities are Just Marketing Pools
aithene
· 2 years ago
Now you have to write a piece about communities as classrooms. That's the primary focus for me. I have little to sell except my podcast, and the stuff I'm being sold, generally isn't owned by the seller (twitter, pownce, jaiku, facebook, etc.). But I learn a lot, and I try to teach as best I can as well.
If we were all friends sitting around the living room and talking, we'd be talking about the same things. "So, what's new with you?" "You know, last week I..." "Hey, did you see that...?" Wanna call that marketing? Fine. Its the stuff we do in real life anyway. Find people with similar interests and spend time with them because we like them and its fun.
There are marketers, but they tend to get shelved pretty quickly. Like your buddy who is always trying to sell you something. Nice guy, but I hate having him around. We've all met the type, and most of us don't hang out with them because we get tired of telling them 'no'.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Pass me the iced tea, would ya?
Doug Haslam
· 2 years ago
Wow, great post, Chris-- and not just because you said nice things about me (though that works).
You really nailed it in my opinion. One thing-- you don't necessarily have to think of it as marketing or selling, but that's what you are doing, even if you are merely selling your own cleverness with a funny quip on Twitter. In other words, Chris Wilson's comment is a valuable part of this post. Read the comments people!
As a PR person,. I cannot say enough about disclosure. there's nothing wrong with disclosing that I am talking about a client-- I will only tweet/blog/whatever when I think some of the readers will find it relevant, maybe even cool.
Thanks again Chris!
Christopher Penn, Financial Ai
· 2 years ago
If marketing is a conversation, then yes, we're all marketing to each other, because we're having a conversation. As with all conversations, some people are better conversationalists than others.
mitchjoel
· 2 years ago
did I say that or did Joseph Jaffe? Ah well, either way...
Bryan Person, Bryper.com
· 2 years ago
I don't think you said it exactly that way, Mitch. But you did say something like: "Don't send me your resume. Show me your blog. Show me your podcast."
jptrenn
· 2 years ago
Chris B.
What exactly do you mean by the phrase "community"? You point out Mario, Gina, and Drew and imply they are part of your community. What exactly is that community.
I ask because I've been thinking about how we now use (or misuse) words such "friends" when it comes to connections on social networks.
I'm not saying that you're misusing the word community here, but I think others have been, often unknowingly.
chrisbrogan
· 2 years ago
Jonathan - in this case, I'm using community to mean 'self-identifying,' 'self-selecting' communities of interest. I mean people who by saying they're part of a community ARE part of a community.
Mario, Gina, etc, are all community developers for their products. Gina's co-founder of Ning. Mario is an employee of LinkedIN. These are social network software sites.
In the case of this conversation overall, I mostly mean digital communities.
Hope that helps.
jptrenn
· 2 years ago
Ah. I see.
To me - and this is not a criticism of your usage - the term 'community' is being bantered around too much these days. Like the way 'friend' is being used on social networks.
Actually I'm starting to write a post about it on MarketingConversation.com. I'll let you know when it's up. But great post.
deb schultz
· 2 years ago
great post indeed and something I do A LOT of thinking about. One of the issues we are dealing with in this current moment in time is that we dont have the right words for "friends" & "community" in the online sense. Just as web pages were never pages. Friends online are different than 3D friends (not better or worse, deeper or more superficial) just different. Same holds rue for community. I get very tired with people constantly comparing the word community online and offline and arguing with people who say you cant possibly have XX [insert ridiculous high number here] friends online. I cant have 5K friends in the traditional sense of the word but I can have [insert ridiculous large number again] connections that may come to my aid, teach me, introduce me and who knows what else.
chrisbrogan
· 2 years ago
Perfect point, Jonathan. It's not the same thing, and we need better words. I wrote about something similar a week or so ago, "Like words for snow."
Jon G.
· 2 years ago
"Contacts" or "Connections" works for me.
drew olanoff
· 2 years ago
My thing is, if I'm talking about it, I like it. And I want my friends to trust me. Or professional contacts, or whatever you like to call them is fine by me.
Obviously I have worked for Pluggd and have been overly transparent about it.
I've also been plenty passionate about other services that I don't work for. Pownce most recently. I think they nailed it.
Jim
· 2 years ago
Ya know, when you're selling hammers every community looks like a nail. Remember when online (or any) communities were simply groups of people with common interests instead of markets or managed focus groups?
I'd reinforce Johnathan Trenn's comment. Words and meanings matter here. Sometimes it seems like the topic is workforce creation more than building organic online communities. Minions over members. I thought Cluetrain was about breaking the illusion of the minion hordes? Hmmm...
Whitney
· 2 years ago
I don't ever look at myself as a salesperson. I look at myself as someone interested in helping other people, and if there's something I can do to to throw a lifering to a friend, that's what I'm going to do.
As someone organizing an unconference, I want to be successful, I am going to reach out to everyone I know and beyond, to essentially invite them to my party. Hopefully, it's just like a dinner party at my house- some people can make it, some people can't, and hopefully friends will want to come because it's going to be a good time and they trust me to make it so. Or not, in the reverse.
At the heart of it, I think Kevin Carroll got it right in his book, The Red Rubber Ball, when he said we need to get to the point where"the source of your play become[s] your life’s work so much so that no one- not even you- will be able to tell the difference between to two”.
While it can be confusing when there's no longer any boundary between work and play, you also don't feel like an actor in your life anymore- there are no more costumes or game face- it's all just you. And what's left is not marketing hype, or trying to twist someone's arm- just people with passions and opinions and interests that can open up so many new doors. You don't have to try so hard, because it's not about selling, it's about exploring new things.
chrisbrogan
· 2 years ago
Jim - I'm not sure who's building minions. But if you think for a moment that (some) people out in the social networking space aren't seeking ways to capture and build business around it, that's not accurate.
Are we all? My naval-gazing part of this post says that in a way I'm seeking to build a community of people who understand my perspective and share similar (but hopefully different enough to help me learn) points of view. Is that for business? No, I don't make a dime off my website or anything related to this.
Will I? Maybe. Maybe I'll show businesses how to properly navigate social media and social network waters and build better relationships. Some of those folks will seek to monetize (side note: proof of MY intentions is shown that it took me 4 tries to spell "monetize") these relationships.
I don't need minions. I have friends.
Whitney
· 2 years ago
If we were being paid by a University, this would be called "research". Since many of us aren't academics, it may be called "exploring" or "testing the waters". It also may be building an audience or interest or proof of concept- but in the end, isn't all just about the interactivity? The sharing and the making the world a slightly better place than it was before?
jptrenn
· 2 years ago
Jim - thanks for reinforcing my point and here's one reason why I made it.
Inadvertent usage of some words..."community" and "friends" can lead to unintentional hype that gets misused by others. Some intentionally, some unintentionally.
I know of a guy who's gone out on a limb and made a series of videos on YouTube. Very insightful, very infomrative. I admire him for doing it. Yet he keeps on talking about how, in this case, politicians should be reaching out to the "YouTube" community. There is no YouTube community. There are millions of people who use/visit YouTube, but they do so for, well, millions of reasons, watching hundreds of thousands of videos. It is not as if all who visit YouTube coagulate around a few dozen videos and then we all share our ideas with one another and get to know one another. Sure, communites CAN form on YouTube, etc., but the entity itself is not a community.
When we inadvertantly refer to YouTube, MySpace, Twitter, Facebook, Ning, etc. as communities (and I'm not suggesting that anyone on this thread has), we, as marketers, are hurting ourselves in the long run because we are, in part, creating the impression that there is this large viable "community" out there ready to hear our marketing messages.
I'd say the same can be said for demographic type categories. There are all too often too many individuals spread across to many sites, blogs, networking platforms, etc. to effectivel establish a cohesive across-the-board community.
This makes our job harder but hopefully more lucrative and fun.
Don't mean to hijack this thread.
chrisbrogan
· 2 years ago
Jonathan- this thread's here for you. : )
I think Facebook isn't a community, but there are communities inside Facebook. There might be some in YouTube. I know some folks know other folks and communicate.
It's another marketplace. There are places for coffee, and places for sales. Places to get a little done, and places that are just for meeting and talking.
Have we built digital malls?
jptrenn
· 2 years ago
We're building digital malls where people can roam and enter different store and maybe turn those places into communities. Opened up too much they're stores where people pass through. Closed off too much and they turn into silos. Done just right (which is hard as hell) they grow into viable communities. Sort of like the TV show "Cheers"..."Where everyone knows your name"
All Comments
If we were all friends sitting around the living room and talking, we'd be talking about the same things. "So, what's new with you?" "You know, last week I..." "Hey, did you see that...?" Wanna call that marketing? Fine. Its the stuff we do in real life anyway. Find people with similar interests and spend time with them because we like them and its fun.
There are marketers, but they tend to get shelved pretty quickly. Like your buddy who is always trying to sell you something. Nice guy, but I hate having him around. We've all met the type, and most of us don't hang out with them because we get tired of telling them 'no'.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Pass me the iced tea, would ya?
You really nailed it in my opinion. One thing-- you don't necessarily have to think of it as marketing or selling, but that's what you are doing, even if you are merely selling your own cleverness with a funny quip on Twitter. In other words, Chris Wilson's comment is a valuable part of this post. Read the comments people!
As a PR person,. I cannot say enough about disclosure. there's nothing wrong with disclosing that I am talking about a client-- I will only tweet/blog/whatever when I think some of the readers will find it relevant, maybe even cool.
Thanks again Chris!
What exactly do you mean by the phrase "community"? You point out Mario, Gina, and Drew and imply they are part of your community. What exactly is that community.
I ask because I've been thinking about how we now use (or misuse) words such "friends" when it comes to connections on social networks.
I'm not saying that you're misusing the word community here, but I think others have been, often unknowingly.
Mario, Gina, etc, are all community developers for their products. Gina's co-founder of Ning. Mario is an employee of LinkedIN. These are social network software sites.
In the case of this conversation overall, I mostly mean digital communities.
Hope that helps.
To me - and this is not a criticism of your usage - the term 'community' is being bantered around too much these days. Like the way 'friend' is being used on social networks.
Actually I'm starting to write a post about it on MarketingConversation.com. I'll let you know when it's up. But great post.
Obviously I have worked for Pluggd and have been overly transparent about it.
I've also been plenty passionate about other services that I don't work for. Pownce most recently. I think they nailed it.
I'd reinforce Johnathan Trenn's comment. Words and meanings matter here. Sometimes it seems like the topic is workforce creation more than building organic online communities. Minions over members. I thought Cluetrain was about breaking the illusion of the minion hordes? Hmmm...
As someone organizing an unconference, I want to be successful, I am going to reach out to everyone I know and beyond, to essentially invite them to my party. Hopefully, it's just like a dinner party at my house- some people can make it, some people can't, and hopefully friends will want to come because it's going to be a good time and they trust me to make it so. Or not, in the reverse.
At the heart of it, I think Kevin Carroll got it right in his book, The Red Rubber Ball, when he said we need to get to the point where"the source of your play become[s] your life’s work so much so that no one- not even you- will be able to tell the difference between to two”.
While it can be confusing when there's no longer any boundary between work and play, you also don't feel like an actor in your life anymore- there are no more costumes or game face- it's all just you. And what's left is not marketing hype, or trying to twist someone's arm- just people with passions and opinions and interests that can open up so many new doors. You don't have to try so hard, because it's not about selling, it's about exploring new things.
Are we all? My naval-gazing part of this post says that in a way I'm seeking to build a community of people who understand my perspective and share similar (but hopefully different enough to help me learn) points of view. Is that for business? No, I don't make a dime off my website or anything related to this.
Will I? Maybe. Maybe I'll show businesses how to properly navigate social media and social network waters and build better relationships. Some of those folks will seek to monetize (side note: proof of MY intentions is shown that it took me 4 tries to spell "monetize") these relationships.
I don't need minions. I have friends.
Inadvertent usage of some words..."community" and "friends" can lead to unintentional hype that gets misused by others. Some intentionally, some unintentionally.
I know of a guy who's gone out on a limb and made a series of videos on YouTube. Very insightful, very infomrative. I admire him for doing it. Yet he keeps on talking about how, in this case, politicians should be reaching out to the "YouTube" community. There is no YouTube community. There are millions of people who use/visit YouTube, but they do so for, well, millions of reasons, watching hundreds of thousands of videos. It is not as if all who visit YouTube coagulate around a few dozen videos and then we all share our ideas with one another and get to know one another. Sure, communites CAN form on YouTube, etc., but the entity itself is not a community.
When we inadvertantly refer to YouTube, MySpace, Twitter, Facebook, Ning, etc. as communities (and I'm not suggesting that anyone on this thread has), we, as marketers, are hurting ourselves in the long run because we are, in part, creating the impression that there is this large viable "community" out there ready to hear our marketing messages.
I'd say the same can be said for demographic type categories. There are all too often too many individuals spread across to many sites, blogs, networking platforms, etc. to effectivel establish a cohesive across-the-board community.
This makes our job harder but hopefully more lucrative and fun.
Don't mean to hijack this thread.
I think Facebook isn't a community, but there are communities inside Facebook. There might be some in YouTube. I know some folks know other folks and communicate.
It's another marketplace. There are places for coffee, and places for sales. Places to get a little done, and places that are just for meeting and talking.
Have we built digital malls?