I believe anticipating what the customer might want if they knew it was possible if one of the key skills in competing smarter in the marketplace.
I think this is especially relevant for all of us working in novel areas like social media, online reputation management and related fields.
And the time tested philosophy of 'service first, money later' is also of paramount importance.
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Hi Oscar. You're right. No one was asking for a phone+ipod+location-aware services app.
Ryan Biddulph
· 3 months ago
Chris,
The only competition is a person's ignorance. Observe the competition to see what the majority is doing; then don't do it.
You can learn from your competition but the thing which will separate you from them is your creativity. World-renowned successes sprout from visions. Richard Branson, founder of that airline referenced above, is called a 'visionary.'
He sees things that few others do and acts on them.
The highest achievers focus primarily on creating, not competing.
RB
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Now that's an interesting take. I wouldn't have thought that way, but I can see what you're driving at.
isfan
· 3 months ago
Although visionary, Bronson has tended to focus on existing markets where people mostly hate the incumbents. Mobile phones, airlines, train (uk), financial services...
His companies care deeply for their customers and it has obviously worked very well. Some people think Virgin is scattered but they fail to understand that the glue is their brand and their brands says " we're cool and we care".
@isfan
joshuaguffey
· 3 months ago
You're right Ryan!
It's a matter of creativity and focused thought (vs laziness?) I know I've been on the guilty end of this in my efforts to learn. Ah well, gotta start somewhere I suppose. Onward and upward.
Timberland shoes
· 2 months ago
I can' agree more.
thinkmaya
· 3 months ago
I have a somewhat of a problem with this post - since I think "compete" is somewhat of a wrong word. And when we use that word, I believe it takes our focus away from what we are doing with our own companies and obsess on what others are doing.
I much rather prefer the word "differentiation", cause that means being aware of what others are doing but work on differentiating our own services by working harder to make our services/products different. That is what Zappos did. If we get caught up with competing, IMHO , we will always be playing catch up. But getting on the differentiation and innovation route lets people compete without competing.
So, in a lot of ways, I am NOT competing. I am innovating. And a number of times, when I come across people in the same space, I get more out of trying to learn from them or even working with them ....
Maybe I am being too naive :)
Warren Whitlock
· 3 months ago
People buy from those they know, like and trust. No matter what size your company, what features your offer, or what the "marketplace" is up to .. you will win if you listen to people and love them (showing you care)
Kathi Rabil
· 3 months ago
This is the philosophy that we at SLICE have built our business on. The relationship is the foundation of all good, win/win, profitable business. Isn't that the key premise of Trust Agents?
WendyPeters
· 3 months ago
I love competing from the 'if I win, you win' standpoint. Typically, as a competing advantage becomes more popular, it becomes less of a competitive advantage. But in this case, if the competitive advantage is helping people, and we end up with more companies trying to help people... all I can say is I think I like the vision of where this could go. :)
thomsinger
· 3 months ago
The thing people forget when they compete is that you must stand out in some manner. Too many people copy their competition too much. They assume if it is working for the competitor it will work for them. Passion for what you are doing, consistency, and a sprinkle of uniqueness is just the start. Also, you need to have attitude that you can and will triumph. Sticking with it and always looking for that unique tweak is key.
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
I think there's this book that talks about standing out. There was a chapter called "Make Your Own Game" or something, and I think whoever wrote it must agree wtih you a great deal!
JakeNieuwland
· 3 months ago
I believe Seth Godin makes this point well, "Be Remarkable". Thats is.. be someone or something that people feel compelled to make a remark about. Go to http://www.ted.com and search for seth godin, he's got a couple of great videos up on TED
davidscohen
· 3 months ago
Nice thoughts! Competing on price IMHO is your arena of last resort. Too many companies jump to that before exhausting other options. Seeking out meaningful differentiation can bring clarity to your messaging, your segmentation, and basically all of your marketing efforts. Distance yourself from competition by creating expectations based on authenticity and deliver on those expectations with consistency and you will succeed.
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
You're right, David. It's the last resort. : )
frank barry
· 3 months ago
Was it the last resort for Wal-Mart? It seems that competing on price will always be around and needed at some level, no?
Tom Martin
· 3 months ago
Chris,
I'd add "Can you solve a problem no one else will?" So many industries have common problems that no one is willing to address. Think banking and bankers' hours.
If you're willing to fix something no one else will, gives you a huge advantage IMHO. @TomMartin
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
VERY good one, Tom. I like that a ton. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
JoeMescher
· 3 months ago
Competition is a terrific motivator.
I fully agree that competing on price is a losing proposition, because someone else is always cheaper (so said my first sales manager).
From my perspective there's a few things to consider with respect to competition:
1. You can provide a product/service of value that NO ONE else is or... 2. Make your product/service better than anything on the market.
Of course, distribution and awareness are what competition is really about. If you don't form profitable relationships with a lot of people, nothing happens...
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Bingo, Joe. It's like a car with no wheels.
joshuaguffey
· 3 months ago
Excellent short post!
It's important to remember that your clients/customers are paying you for a complete experience. The sales/education experience, the purchasing experience, the usage experience, the after-sale support experience AND, of course, the efficacy of your product, information or service.
Is every aspect of your client's experience with your business smooth and enjoyable? Get in their shoes. Get behind their eyes. What experience do you see when you really look?
Go that extra bit for your client. It comes back to you.
startabuzz
· 3 months ago
The best way that I know how to compete is by doing my absolute best for my clients. As a small shop, I can provide customer service that a big corporation can't. I take the time to do the extra little things. I can't compete monetarily, and I don't really think I want to, but I can compete on service, and on the quality of my work.
Wonderful things to think about. Now, I'm off to see if my children can exhibit some velocity in their efforts to get up, dressed, and out the door to school. :)
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Good luck with the school effort. Let us know how that turned out. : )
larrybruce
· 3 months ago
Chris I am going to go OLD SCHOOL on you, but as one of my most favorite speakers and authors Zig Zigalr once said.
"You can get everything in life you want; if you help enough others get what they want."
That's how I have endeavored to live my life for the last 20 years, I believe it works.
LB
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
So far so good for me, too, amigo.
Ken Montville
· 3 months ago
Good analysis, Chris. I try to think of new ways to compete, myself, in a profession that borders on commodification and 90% of marketing is all alike. Unfortunately (for me), I haven't come up with anything good, yet.
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Remind us of the profession? Christopher S Penn competes in a marketplace regulated by the government to be exactly identical, and he stands out. : )
Ken Montville
· 3 months ago
Good point. I remember reading about Chris Penn in Trust Agents. I'm a Realtor. So, as you may know, there are tons of us out there and seemingly limited ways to attract clients.
Juliesquires
· 3 months ago
Thank you, Chris. I always enjoy your thoughtful insights. I compete through - believe it or not - the concepts of wellness http://bit.ly/3PJfyC + care in every detail - and I try to infuse this throughout our company. I know what I do best, and how that meets our clients needs; I manage my health, energy and priorities well; and I continually learn and evolve new ideas + product offerings that help our clients win. I work to my strengths and happiness [StrengthsFinder 2.0] and empower those around me to do the same (I hope!). To a degree, that's what Craig Newmark and Peter Shankman do as well. Thanks again. Best, Julie Squires, CEO, Softscribe Inc. @Juliesquires
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
I love StrengthsFinder 2.0. I have to go find my results somewhere. I was high in "woo."
Thanks for your thoughts, Julie.
Juliesquires
· 3 months ago
LOL - well, "Woo hoo" is good. Were your ears burning this morning? We all agreed we can "hear" you; our team looking forward to hearing you speak at New Media in Atlanta Sept 25th. Thanks again and good travels. @Juliesquires
Mark Dykeman
· 3 months ago
I've never used the service before, but I didn't think Craigslist was known for customer service excellence. The recent Wired article about Craigslist suggested that their customer service was not so good. This doesn't negate the point of your post, but it might not be the best example.
Dave Doolin
· 3 months ago
My goal is to compete on quality and user experience. Competing on price is a losing battle. I have a ways to go, to be sure.
drewryonline
· 3 months ago
Chris,
your blog game is very proper when it comes to Social Media. Drop by sometime and let's rap :-)
I believe the key is people. In a world were answering machines, automated websites and emails are taking over. If you are there for your clients, you have more chance of beating the competition. Good work means good references
Ben Atlas
· 3 months ago
Craigslist doesn't have any customer service, that's the entire point of the company.
Tim Jahn
· 3 months ago
I think a key part of competing is relating. If you go to two identical hot dog shops but the owner of the second one shares your Seinfeld sense of humor, chances are you'll be over there more often.
I choose Apple over Microsoft because I relate to the creativity and innovation of Apple. I don't relate to the imitating, complex nature of Microsoft.
There's many comedy troupes/clubs in Chicago (Second City, Improv Olympic, ComedySportz to name a few). People like certain ones over others because they can relate to the performers and the material more.
Jamie Wallace
· 3 months ago
Love the image. Is that an ode to the dog-eat-dog cliche? ;)
Although I think "vision" is critical to launching a business or idea; when it comes to competing, I think that customer service and - more accurately - a great, overall customer experience is what really makes the difference between top dog and the next pooch. I recently wrote about a powerful "asset" based on a term coined by the leader of the band for which I sing backup (you just never know where marketing insights will come from, do you?). That asset is an "assumption of competence," and it really goes far beyond actual competence to a place where your service gives your customers a sense of total confidence and comfort in your ability to deliver. You compete by making their lives so easy that they don't even have to think about the problem your product or service solves. It's a no-brainer for them to engage with you because it's just that easy and painless.
I don't know about you, but when I find a brand that offers me something I need (or want) in an annoyance-free way, I usually become a fan for life. My assumption of their competence means I don't have to waste MY time checking up, coming up with contingency plans, or putting out fires. THAT's a hands-down win over any other competitor who may try to lure me away with price, fancy features, or any other diversionary tactic.
Sooj
· 3 months ago
It seems too simple to say that competing on price is a losing game. For any business that is competing against another, pricing is an important part of any sales strategy. All one has to do is consider the number of market leaders who has pushed prices downward: Wal-Mart & Amazon are two examples that come to mind. Especially in this economy, people are more price conscious than ever.
That said, the post does point to many other factors on competition. We in the U.S. live in a predominantly service economy now, and being able to listen to customers/clients and offering them what they want, anticipating what they want, and making life easier for them will be crucial to business survival.
One key thing I always do is try to understand whatever I am doing from the customer point of view. Being in an industry that is ultimately about selling in a retail environment, I spend at least a few hours each week in various retail environments watching how people shop and how retail environments are created. While distribution and the company's corporate culture are important, ultimately, the consumers are making the final purchases that determine failure or success.
Matt Searles
· 3 months ago
err, ok, well this is how I think..
Big companies are screwed.. its like going to the coolest museum in the world where you can actually see living breathing dinosaurs..
I think the number one challenge of business today is change management... Businesses that are big.. the whole history of the study of how you manage a business.. it's based on a totally different situation then the one we are entering in now. So between that and just the nature of bigness.. from culture to how management is conceptualized.. it's just not about agility.. I mean being a little guy is like a skate boarder versus an air craft carrier in a game of.. well how well you can move on a dime.
I think even in you're best case scenarios big businesses have huge disadvantages.. the more we can conceptualize and approach markets asymmetrically.. the more we see democratization of things, shifting power relationships between customers and brand.. the less the power of a market position is going to matter.
There's a lot of things stirring in the tech waters.. that could change things dramatically.. like.. "what if open source figures out how to do user experience?" All the tools the social media kids are using are really just beta's of what will be.. etc, etc, etc, etc.
So um.. here's a few things.
#1 re conceptualize business structure: If individuals are inherently better at change management could the future of social networking have something to do with a granular organization system where we come together in new ways to collaborate on projects? So I've been looking into starting a meet up group to explore this.
#2 The contrarian advantage: How do people see the world.. how do big organizations see the world? What is difficult to quantize into there systems, that you can see, why there's an opportunity for you. To maximize the possibilities of this sorta advantage, when you think about the educational part of your career development don't identify too strongly with off the shelf carrier paths.. Innovation comes from a synthesis of disparate stuff.. what defines things as disparate is how stuff gets compartmentalized. Remember it's all miscellaneous! If you conceptualize your path in such a way that you are a synthesis of different compartments.. you will see lots and lots of stuff know one else sees.. cause everyone else is to narrowly focused.
#3 I've personally been looking at the hollywood visual effects industry. Turns out for an investment of about $15K or so beyond what I already have invested, I can do what they can do with the only expense being my labor. I could there for work on very short piece of content where I could rival what they can afford with respect to production values.
Does that matter in the DIY Youtube age? How about if micro theaters become a reality? Think more broadly about digital distribution possibilities? I recently saw a panel where Quentin Tarantino "if you kick ass there is no competition, the competition becomes a bunch of beached whales." I think he was onto something.
#4 Don't be chicken shit. People freak out about twitter "but they don't have a business model." I understand your old Boss, Chris, wasn't big on business models? Don't be afraid if you can't see the way.. be like a Jedi and don't let what your eyes see confuse you.. cultivate that inner intuition and voice and learn to rely on it. Come to trust in your ability to discover the way. Above all, make sure you are on the right / true path for you as an individual.. which more or less comes down to something a little deeper then doing what you're passionate about.. but following you Bliss to quote Joseph Campbell
Chris Brogan
· 3 months ago
Dude, this is an entire blog post in its own. :) I love when you break it out there. I don't always agree with every lick of your ideas, but I feel you, every single time. You're good people.
Nathan Hangen
· 3 months ago
Chris, I love the manner in which technology can connect ideas and make them happen. No longer do we have to sit back and think about how nice it would be to have "x,y, and z." We can sit down with brilliant minds and make it happen. Very exciting times.
I like solving problems people didn't know they had, but my problem there is educating them about said problem.
Brilliant post.
ilyagl
· 3 months ago
Great post! I really enjoy reading your blog. In the trading company I work for, we provide free education to the clients, like the rest of the industry. We also provide them the possibility to trade in all the stuff they cannot do in the other companies. The big advantage is the sales people, that are picked by country, and are supposed to talk as long as they can with the customer, and convince him to get take theyir money out. It makes "less buisness", but allows the company to grow really fast, since they are coming back, usually the next day.
maverickwoman
· 3 months ago
On the subject of being helpful...I loved Valeria Mantonia's post on Social Media Today titled " Being helpful is "the new black" http://www.socialmediatoday.com/SMC/119526. I am borrowing it as a theme for a talk next week at Melcrum's Strategic Communication Summit in Sydney on how being helpful inside large organisations where competitive tribes thrive is just as important in building one's influence and a groundswell over time to fulfil one's mission as a change agent. If you are helpful to people both inside and beyond your corporate boundaries, eventually you become the "go-to" person and trust and your reputation increases!
Laura
· 3 months ago
Chris - you always give me something to think about. The points above are important for anyone with a service business. Thanks!
Collagenelife
· 3 months ago
This is quite interesting and eye opener at the same too often are focus is very limited stopping us from making progress in our own goal achievements, thanks for sharing
battery chargers
· 3 months ago
Congratulations! We must say that usually when something this big occurs, it only means improvements and overall a better experience with whatever company acquires the other. We look forward to seeing what this brings!
Jeff Ogden
· 3 months ago
Very good post, Chris. The world is filled with me-too products. No one has to do anything, so businesses must stand out in some way.
Great article, I can really relate to your last paragraph. I bought a new piece of sporting equipment into a competitive market, it was well made and performed better than the competitors. My competition didn't like it, I was bagged on forums, my product slammed, accused of being illegal and they even tried to have it banned by the governing sporting body. I stayed calm didn't respond to the detractors once and never criticised them. I also gave the athletes something they never had before, I offered the clubs a free service where I would brand the equipment with a potential sponsors logo and imagery to help get the club sponsorship. Didn't look back.
It did also help that I managed to get a couple of the top teams at the time to use the equipment in an important event and win of course. But I never once put down my competitors. I now have 90% market share.
cheers
Col
Colin Bartley
· 3 months ago
Great article Chris, I can really relate to your last paragraph. I bought a new piece of sporting equipment into a competitive market, it was well made and performed better than the competitors. My competition didn't like it, I was bagged on forums, my product slammed, accused of being illegal and they even tried to have it banned by the governing sporting body. I stayed calm didn't respond to the detractors once and never criticised their products. I also gave the athletes and sporting clubs something they never had before, I offered the clubs a free service where I would brand the equipment with a potential sponsors logo and imagery to help get the clubs sponsorship to buy the new equipment. Didn't look back. I now have 90% market share.
Cheers Col
Francis Bélime
· 3 months ago
Good points...manage competition is the key factor in business success ! To be read by all young entrepreneurs...
Mohan Arun L
· 3 months ago
Craigslist never had to compete - it was a pioneer in the online classifieds area, and quickly grew to be a household name, easily recallable.
All Comments
I believe anticipating what the customer might want if they knew it was possible if one of the key skills in competing smarter in the marketplace.
I think this is especially relevant for all of us working in novel areas like social media, online reputation management and related fields.
And the time tested philosophy of 'service first, money later' is also of paramount importance.
The only competition is a person's ignorance. Observe the competition to see what the majority is doing; then don't do it.
You can learn from your competition but the thing which will separate you from them is your creativity. World-renowned successes sprout from visions. Richard Branson, founder of that airline referenced above, is called a 'visionary.'
He sees things that few others do and acts on them.
The highest achievers focus primarily on creating, not competing.
RB
His companies care deeply for their customers and it has obviously worked very well. Some people think Virgin is scattered but they fail to understand that the glue is their brand and their brands says " we're cool and we care".
@isfan
It's a matter of creativity and focused thought (vs laziness?)
I know I've been on the guilty end of this in my efforts to learn. Ah well, gotta start somewhere I suppose. Onward and upward.
I much rather prefer the word "differentiation", cause that means being aware of what others are doing but work on differentiating our own services by working harder to make our services/products different. That is what Zappos did. If we get caught up with competing, IMHO , we will always be playing catch up. But getting on the differentiation and innovation route lets people compete without competing.
So, in a lot of ways, I am NOT competing. I am innovating. And a number of times, when I come across people in the same space, I get more out of trying to learn from them or even working with them ....
Maybe I am being too naive :)
I'd add "Can you solve a problem no one else will?" So many industries have common problems that no one is willing to address. Think banking and bankers' hours.
If you're willing to fix something no one else will, gives you a huge advantage IMHO.
@TomMartin
I fully agree that competing on price is a losing proposition, because someone else is always cheaper (so said my first sales manager).
From my perspective there's a few things to consider with respect to competition:
1. You can provide a product/service of value that NO ONE else is or...
2. Make your product/service better than anything on the market.
Of course, distribution and awareness are what competition is really about. If you don't form profitable relationships with a lot of people, nothing happens...
It's important to remember that your clients/customers are paying you for a complete experience. The sales/education experience, the purchasing experience, the usage experience, the after-sale support experience AND, of course, the efficacy of your product, information or service.
Is every aspect of your client's experience with your business smooth and enjoyable?
Get in their shoes. Get behind their eyes. What experience do you see when you really look?
-@joshuaguffey
Go that extra bit for your client. It comes back to you.
Wonderful things to think about. Now, I'm off to see if my children can exhibit some velocity in their efforts to get up, dressed, and out the door to school. :)
"You can get everything in life you want; if you help enough others get what they want."
That's how I have endeavored to live my life for the last 20 years, I believe it works.
LB
Thanks for your thoughts, Julie.
your blog game is very proper when it comes to Social Media. Drop by sometime and let's rap :-)
Shawn
http://www.ShawnDrewry.com
I choose Apple over Microsoft because I relate to the creativity and innovation of Apple. I don't relate to the imitating, complex nature of Microsoft.
There's many comedy troupes/clubs in Chicago (Second City, Improv Olympic, ComedySportz to name a few). People like certain ones over others because they can relate to the performers and the material more.
Although I think "vision" is critical to launching a business or idea; when it comes to competing, I think that customer service and - more accurately - a great, overall customer experience is what really makes the difference between top dog and the next pooch.
I recently wrote about a powerful "asset" based on a term coined by the leader of the band for which I sing backup (you just never know where marketing insights will come from, do you?). That asset is an "assumption of competence," and it really goes far beyond actual competence to a place where your service gives your customers a sense of total confidence and comfort in your ability to deliver. You compete by making their lives so easy that they don't even have to think about the problem your product or service solves. It's a no-brainer for them to engage with you because it's just that easy and painless.
I don't know about you, but when I find a brand that offers me something I need (or want) in an annoyance-free way, I usually become a fan for life. My assumption of their competence means I don't have to waste MY time checking up, coming up with contingency plans, or putting out fires. THAT's a hands-down win over any other competitor who may try to lure me away with price, fancy features, or any other diversionary tactic.
That said, the post does point to many other factors on competition. We in the U.S. live in a predominantly service economy now, and being able to listen to customers/clients and offering them what they want, anticipating what they want, and making life easier for them will be crucial to business survival.
One key thing I always do is try to understand whatever I am doing from the customer point of view. Being in an industry that is ultimately about selling in a retail environment, I spend at least a few hours each week in various retail environments watching how people shop and how retail environments are created. While distribution and the company's corporate culture are important, ultimately, the consumers are making the final purchases that determine failure or success.
Big companies are screwed.. its like going to the coolest museum in the world where you can actually see living breathing dinosaurs..
I think the number one challenge of business today is change management... Businesses that are big.. the whole history of the study of how you manage a business.. it's based on a totally different situation then the one we are entering in now. So between that and just the nature of bigness.. from culture to how management is conceptualized.. it's just not about agility.. I mean being a little guy is like a skate boarder versus an air craft carrier in a game of.. well how well you can move on a dime.
I think even in you're best case scenarios big businesses have huge disadvantages.. the more we can conceptualize and approach markets asymmetrically.. the more we see democratization of things, shifting power relationships between customers and brand.. the less the power of a market position is going to matter.
There's a lot of things stirring in the tech waters.. that could change things dramatically.. like.. "what if open source figures out how to do user experience?" All the tools the social media kids are using are really just beta's of what will be.. etc, etc, etc, etc.
So um.. here's a few things.
#1 re conceptualize business structure: If individuals are inherently better at change management could the future of social networking have something to do with a granular organization system where we come together in new ways to collaborate on projects? So I've been looking into starting a meet up group to explore this.
#2 The contrarian advantage: How do people see the world.. how do big organizations see the world? What is difficult to quantize into there systems, that you can see, why there's an opportunity for you. To maximize the possibilities of this sorta advantage, when you think about the educational part of your career development don't identify too strongly with off the shelf carrier paths.. Innovation comes from a synthesis of disparate stuff.. what defines things as disparate is how stuff gets compartmentalized. Remember it's all miscellaneous! If you conceptualize your path in such a way that you are a synthesis of different compartments.. you will see lots and lots of stuff know one else sees.. cause everyone else is to narrowly focused.
#3 I've personally been looking at the hollywood visual effects industry. Turns out for an investment of about $15K or so beyond what I already have invested, I can do what they can do with the only expense being my labor. I could there for work on very short piece of content where I could rival what they can afford with respect to production values.
Does that matter in the DIY Youtube age? How about if micro theaters become a reality? Think more broadly about digital distribution possibilities? I recently saw a panel where Quentin Tarantino "if you kick ass there is no competition, the competition becomes a bunch of beached whales." I think he was onto something.
#4 Don't be chicken shit. People freak out about twitter "but they don't have a business model." I understand your old Boss, Chris, wasn't big on business models? Don't be afraid if you can't see the way.. be like a Jedi and don't let what your eyes see confuse you.. cultivate that inner intuition and voice and learn to rely on it. Come to trust in your ability to discover the way. Above all, make sure you are on the right / true path for you as an individual.. which more or less comes down to something a little deeper then doing what you're passionate about.. but following you Bliss to quote Joseph Campbell
I like solving problems people didn't know they had, but my problem there is educating them about said problem.
Brilliant post.
In the trading company I work for, we provide free education to the clients, like the rest of the industry. We also provide them the possibility to trade in all the stuff they cannot do in the other companies.
The big advantage is the sales people, that are picked by country, and are supposed to talk as long as they can with the customer, and convince him to get take theyir money out.
It makes "less buisness", but allows the company to grow really fast, since they are coming back, usually the next day.
Forgive my self-promotion, but you'll find ideas in lead generation at http://findnewcustomers.net and a discussion at http://fearlesscompetitor.com
It did also help that I managed to get a couple of the top teams at the time to use the equipment in an important event and win of course. But I never once put down my competitors. I now have 90% market share.
cheers
Col
Cheers Col
To be read by all young entrepreneurs...
thnx for sharing it!
www.craigbiertempfel.com