Good news. I'll draft a follow-up post as well. Thanks Chris.
Chuck
· 1 year ago
But honestly, they couldn't really send him an email ahead of time to let him know that they were shutting down his Google account immediately because he would never be able to get it! lol They had no way of getting in touch with him, it looks like. Which service made you put in a backup email address for emergency contact? I can't remember if it was Yahoo or another. The reason, I accept, for how hard it is to get in touch with them? I don't. I suppose it is something we are forced to accept with such an enormous company.
Dave Winer
· 1 year ago
The problem is that whatever they said to your friend would also be read by the people who compromised the account. There aren't many options for them at that point, but completely shutting down the account will stop the breaches so it *seems* like they did the right thing.
Jillian C. York
· 1 year ago
Interesting...a couple of years ago, someone hacked my ebay account, then my gmail. Google got back to me in less than 24 hours, restored my account with very little information (I had my college e-mail address listed as secondary; secondary e-mail is the easiest means of restoration), and were incredibly kind about it.
Ebay, on the other hand...Apologized, but refused to restore my account even though they recognized it wasn't my fault. Assholes.
Ed Shaz/ NextInstinct
· 1 year ago
It only gets worse.
There is NO reason Google couldn't have shared this information with Nick up front. Were they not sure it would reach him, rather than someone who attempted the breach? Then they should have a better security procedure in place UP Front to contact you in these instances.
So, THEIR checkout gets hacked, at Nick's risk, they can't figure out what happened in an account they administer; "It is difficult to determine the exact nature of your account compromise". So the easy thing to do since our checkout failed, is to shut you out of your account, and move on like you never existed?
I love Google for a lot of reasons. Mostly for the world information they've put at our fingertips. But customer service like Dell would suck. "...understand you may have questions about actions taken..." Huh? May have questions? Who is this Microsoft on the phone?
What would have happened if Chris Brogan didn't intervene, and this story make the front page of ZDNet thanks to Michael Krigsman?
Lastly, yes, we're fortunate there is Matt Cutts. But one guy, even as bright, knowledgeable, well liked and respectful as Matt, can take process the entire point for a country the size of Google.
Thank You for the space Chris. ~Ed
Andy Beal
· 1 year ago
It seems to me that Google needs a better way of connecting with the confirmed owner of the account. Have they heard of the telephone? Maybe the old "Your first pet's name?" security question would help ensure that they were talking to Nick, and not some hacker.
Matt Cutts
· 1 year ago
Thanks for posting an update, Chris. I'm sure that we'll get good feedback in the rest of these comments on ways we could have done better on communicating with Nick, but I'm glad that the reason for temporarily shutting down the account was not a false positive, but to try to protect the account owner.
It's a difficult problem on how to handle a compromised account. You want to help the account owner without tipping any information to the malicious person who hacked the account.
Jack Repenning
· 1 year ago
Well, not a few of us have had credit cards refused in the middle of a Christmas shopping trip or vacation, and that never begins with notice, either. So maybe expecting notice at the outset is unrealistic.
But the response, when Nick asked, of "go away," totally sucks.
Writer Dad
· 1 year ago
I'm sure a simple email, before the fact, would have made all the difference in the world.
Lisa McGrath
· 1 year ago
Agree with Jack R. Initially their response was HORRIBLE. I like that they are trying to fix it. But also agree they may not be this hot on communications if such a bug stir hadn't already been created.
Matthias Galica
· 1 year ago
Seems like a simple change to the form message would have avoided this entire mess. Something like:
"We've detected fraudulent activity on your Google account. Please call us at 800-xxx-xxx to resolve the issue."
Maybe Google should do some customer service headhunting over at Zappos.
BR
· 1 year ago
Most of the suggestions (sending emails, warning people via form messages) fail security 101. If the account is compromised, you are just helping the bad guys by doing this.
M Burke
· 1 year ago
Typical of Google... act first talk later. When I created an Adwords account and put up some ads, I got this message "your budget has been exceeded", just as a test, I kicked the budget way up and saw same message. The following week (Google had taken the busy holiday weekend off), I finally heard back that my ads had "gone under review", but since there were no reviewers over the weekend...
I stopped using Adwords and have an advertising company handling the drudgery.
doug
· 1 year ago
"It’s a difficult problem on how to handle a compromised account. You want to help the account owner without tipping any information to the malicious person who hacked the account."
Difficult only because Google (this case in point) has insufficient policies to recover a "stolen" account. Credit card companies, among other industries, have simple procedures in place to recover a stolen account. Why not Google?
As an aside, this seems to be a clear argument against EVER using Google Checkout. Why give Google your financial info if it runs the risk of having your email shut down?
werwer
· 1 year ago
Alright, they had a way to contact nick, but they chose to just leave his account blocked instead of contacting him?
Google - do no evil? Right!
I'm slowly stepping down.
Gavin Bollard
· 1 year ago
I for one applaud Google's quick shutdown response. If the individual components of google can't be shutdown individually, then it's at least good that they responded so quickly. Timing is often more important in these situations.
For example; if I discover a network security problem or a virus on one of our network PCs, I'm liable to pull the network cable before I offer explanations. Delays can jeopardise the rest of the network.
Matt Cutts
· 1 year ago
Hi doug and werwer, in this case I wish we had done more to contact Nick proactively. There are people at Google who are thinking about how to improve this type of situation in the future.
But in many cases, people don't give us secondary email addresses or phone numbers where we can contact them. In fact, many people view that as a strength--other companies such as Yahoo and Microsoft ask for much more personal information to set up an account then Google does.
doug
· 1 year ago
Matt, thanks for the quick response. I agree with Chris, you do Google a great service here and elsewhere.
However, I was surprised to read this comment:
But in many cases, people don’t give us secondary email addresses or phone numbers where we can contact them. In fact, many people view that as a strength–other companies such as Yahoo and Microsoft ask for much more personal information to set up an account then Google does.
You need to use your own products! ;)
The problem in this case arose with a transaction in Google Checkout. And guess what's required when you sign up for Google Checkout...an address and phone number. Heck, it even does a ZIP code check against the city entered (I just tried entering dummy data).
It would appear that this whole brouhaha was completely avoidable since Google actually did have contact information for Nick Saber, no?
Ray
· 1 year ago
Never would have happened if Google had Verify by Visa as part of their Google Checkout. It's there to combat fraud and a lot of other places use it.....
Beau
· 1 year ago
as someone who has worked in internet security before, Google did exactly what they should have done
They assumed their customer's information was compromised and that in turn their system was compromised. They have to assume any contact with the account on their system would be intercepted or received directly by whomever had compromised the account. They would not want to give up any information on how or when they discovered the problem/intrusion so as not to allow the people who had done so to learn anything about their detection abilities. They would assume (and in this case rightly so) that the real user would immediately contact their customer support to find out why they could not access their account. After some verification and explaining, the user would gain the re-use of their account, or in extreme cases told that the account would be closed while an investigation occurs. This has nothign to do with Google owning the account, it has everythign to do with you signing up for their service, allowing them to control the management, administration, and security of your use and information. If you wished to handle your own accounts, you should get your own server with it's own security and administrative software to handle emails, document storage, and whatever else you currently use Google for...
metacritic
· 1 year ago
Why does an e-mail account need to be locked if a credit card number was compromised?
I had my gmail account locked, and I recieved the first e-mail. I kept asking what caused it but never heard back from Google. I've archived all of my e-mail messages and use SMTP to access gmail now. If I can't use it in the future, I'll just use my own domain instead. I've never had a problem with Yahoo mail like this.
Kristian
· 1 year ago
"But wow. Couldn’t this have started with an email saying, “Looks like someone was messing with your account. We shut it down to investigate.”"
Well - if they were gonna shut down his account, how could he have read that mail? ;)
Daniel
· 1 year ago
I realize that this is a very rare incident for Google Accounts considering the huge number of times everything works brilliantly throughout each day.
But this does indeed get at the heart of the criticism over giving Google so much of your data and resources, and frankly I'm hugely disappointed by the way this incident played out as described.
Others have noted that the response was appropriate since the various services cannot be unbundled on Google's end -- but why can't they be? I have had my bank account freeze if there is suspicious activity (usually it is just me spending too much at once), but why should this also suspend access to my e-mail (for me, my daily business and personal communication), my documents (I do store all of my docs and photos on Google's servers and haven't always had a recent backup), web history, reader, notebook/bookmarks, etc.? I use all of these services daily.
I too am a total Google fanboy and promote their services as the best out there precisely because they are all free. The test of this is not the magical way that everything "just works" every minute of every day -- I take this feat of engineering genius entirely for granted. The test is when something does not work: how is it handled, and how am I assured that my all-too-blind trust in handing over so much to this one entity is thoroughly justified?
Criticize the poor choice made as a consumer on my part, fine, but this is what Google is "selling" and this is what I'm buying: you can trust us with your most important stuff; we work our brilliant magic so you don't have to worry.
This is not Google "doing evil," (I wish people would stop jumping to that charge whenever they possibly can), and nothing is failsafe 100%, but hopefully Google will have learned about 10 really important lessons from this one tiny incident. Frankly, I'm feeling silly for not taking more precautions with my data.
Joy
· 1 year ago
Well, I think that the employees of Google are just using an answering machine to reply Nick until they received his bunches of mails.
Greenville IT Support
· 1 year ago
Most of you miss the real point. Google's inital response is not really a problem. Any vendor will from time to time disable an account, etc. What really matters is how they follow it up when you contact them to resolve it.
As one poster pointed out previously, they had a problem with both gmail and ebay. The gmail problem was fixed within a day and the ebay problem was never fixed. Have you ever tried to resolve a problem with PayPal. They just don't care. I applaud Google for it's quick response in this case.
Crystal
· 1 year ago
Just scored this error: "We're sorry but your Gmail account is currently experiencing errors. You won't be able to use your account while these errors last, but don't worry, your account data and messages are safe. Our engineers are working to resolve this issue."
Normally I'd think, oh, just a glitch, but after reading all about Nick I just feel a horrific panic. Seems to only be Gmail and not anything else, but oh my, if all that's lost...
Cross your fingers for me!
Fred
· 1 year ago
Hi, I have a friend (Barbara )who recently had the same problem.. Account got deactivated "due to security beach " !! Ok but there are important bits of information in there like for flights booked and account inforamtion for other services. !! So surly there has to be a way for google to assist someone in migrating to a new account at least.. Its not far off being told you dont exist and you need to get born again. With all the services they have piled up on the heap of the google experience, people live large parts of their lives through google. Barbara works for a charity. She puts in an incredible amount of personal time and manages that time with google calendar. She spent 3 days not knowing what was going on with her email let alone her work. Google were about as helpful as they were for Nick. Generic emails almost from an auto reply bot. The info for a round the world trip is still locked away in the old account !! If you get any joy Nick.. I would really like to know so Barbara can have some hope too.
All the best,
Fred.
Scott
· 1 year ago
If you trashed the original verification number, is there a way to get it or request another?
Vanessa
· 1 year ago
I have a solution. It's called Wordpress or get your own domain. I used Blogger.com off and on since 2003. I was locked out today from Google accounts and that means all services. All I did was delete 2 blogs under another username. The blog I was locked out of was under a Google account and over a year old. I know the problem is not me because I had access until late this morning.
They sent me through the mill today and mangled my account via their own instructions. I contacted them and they sent me some of the dumbest solutions and they did not work. It's worse now. I'm done. I'm going over to Wordpress. They can have it and do what they like with it. I'm sorry to have to join the chorus of exiting bloggers from Blogger.com but it's not worth the bother any longer.
I started a Wordpress account a couple of months ago to see what all the fuss is about. It's nothing compared to blogger. Hardly any functionality at all and minimal support for google apps.
Those Wordpress people don't know what they're missing.
Vanessa
· 1 year ago
I prefer Blogger.com. The press about Wordpress is overrated. I had a blog there before and you're right it is severely limited and functionality is rigid and controlled. But since the migration to Google Blogger has lost their distinction. It's just apps and development for Google. Publishers no longer matter. Blogger was the best hosted blog platform on the Web. It is sad to see what is happening to it, bloated but no real innovation.
Google has one goal, global control of information. In the process they have become--evil.
I still have all my posts because I sent them to my email program. Google is intimidating the entire Internet community. I have had to re-think putting all my eggs in one basket--on the Internet. It would be wise for small businesses to stay vitally linked offline as far as making profits are concerned. One click, an error, a virus etc. can ruin small businesses online.
I came to this site through search and think the original title was on.
Has anyone thought of how much revenue has gone back to Google as a result of bloggers losing their sites leaving Adsense earnings behind? I didn't until today. I'm done. I have a savior and it ain't google. My income is not dependent on the Internet. God help those who are.
Gavin Bollard
· 1 year ago
"Google has one goal, global control of information. In the process they have become–evil. "
That's a very narrow view of the future of computing.
In fact, if you look at what's happening; IBM have finally gotten their act together and stopped trying to change Notes/Domino into Workplace. Instead, they've started moving the Lotus platform to Eclipse and Web 2.0 integration - essentially creating a collaborative cloud computing capable platform which enables corporations to start plugging their own systems into its service orientated architecture.
Google have done the same with the integration of their various technologies. Google Gadgets is a miniature version of SOA.
Microsoft has been trying to develop their cloud computing plaform for years but Windows Live has remained ..well, dead. It remains to be seen whether their latest - as yet unnamed attempt will succeed.
Google only looks like it's bent on world domination because it's collaborative cloud computing platform is the most mature available to the general public. In fact, it's IBM who is leading the way in the corporate world with some very mature technology.
Vanessa
· 1 year ago
"That’s a very narrow view of the future of computing."
Perhaps. But I would look at where a thing is headed, as to not be blinded by what it's doing along the way. Where is computing headed and why?
Progress, research, development and innovation are good things when they truly have the end goal of serving people. The average person on the street could care less about that process or the technology that comes out of it.
In the final analysis we are always like the proverbial frog in the lab jar, unaware it is being boiled to death until it's too late.
Computing is the first and only innovation to force feed the entire world into a machine. No other invention in the history of mankind has ever required an entire society to depend on it for their very existence.
Society has always had choices and fought to maintain that freedom. When you remove choices, what's left? The computer age has left people with no choices. In less than a decade the entire world of business and every household in the world will be dependent on computers, but a 16 year old kid can create a virus, crash an entire business network and they can't even catch it before it does.
It is not about why and what...exclusively. "Where" is an appropriate question. Where is it headed and what will the average non-technical person (most of us) do in such an age?
"Google only looks like it’s bent on world domination because it’s collaborative cloud computing platform is the most mature available to the general public. In fact, it’s IBM who is..."
If it looks like a duck...
Bruce
· 1 year ago
You get what you pay for.
Robert
· 1 year ago
Exactly, free service/software means less/no support.
Chris K
· 11 months ago
This has happened to me EXACTLY the same. Google checkout compromised, my Gmail account instantly closed. I thought that the hacker had compromised both the checkout and Gmail accounts, until I found out how to contact google checkout about this...that in itself is laborious to say the least. So, I am currently waiting for my Gmail to be activated, my Banks Fraud team to investigate as to why this happened from Checkout...and finally..once its sorted..they can stick their Checkout where the sun dont shine!!
All Comments
lol
They had no way of getting in touch with him, it looks like. Which service made you put in a backup email address for emergency contact? I can't remember if it was Yahoo or another.
The reason, I accept, for how hard it is to get in touch with them? I don't. I suppose it is something we are forced to accept with such an enormous company.
Ebay, on the other hand...Apologized, but refused to restore my account even though they recognized it wasn't my fault. Assholes.
There is NO reason Google couldn't have shared this information with Nick up front.
Were they not sure it would reach him, rather
than someone who attempted the breach?
Then they should have a better security procedure in place UP Front to contact you in these instances.
So, THEIR checkout gets hacked, at Nick's risk,
they can't figure out what happened in an account they administer; "It is difficult to determine the exact nature of your account compromise".
So the easy thing to do since our checkout failed, is to shut you out of your account, and move on like you never existed?
I love Google for a lot of reasons.
Mostly for the world information they've put at our fingertips.
But customer service like Dell would suck. "...understand you may have questions about actions taken..." Huh?
May have questions?
Who is this Microsoft on the phone?
What would have happened if Chris Brogan didn't intervene,
and this story make the front page of ZDNet thanks to Michael Krigsman?
Lastly, yes, we're fortunate there is Matt Cutts.
But one guy, even as bright, knowledgeable,
well liked and respectful as Matt, can take process
the entire point for a country the size of Google.
Thank You for the space Chris.
~Ed
It's a difficult problem on how to handle a compromised account. You want to help the account owner without tipping any information to the malicious person who hacked the account.
But the response, when Nick asked, of "go away," totally sucks.
"We've detected fraudulent activity on your Google account. Please call us at 800-xxx-xxx to resolve the issue."
Maybe Google should do some customer service headhunting over at Zappos.
I stopped using Adwords and have an advertising company handling the drudgery.
Difficult only because Google (this case in point) has insufficient policies to recover a "stolen" account. Credit card companies, among other industries, have simple procedures in place to recover a stolen account. Why not Google?
As an aside, this seems to be a clear argument against EVER using Google Checkout. Why give Google your financial info if it runs the risk of having your email shut down?
Google - do no evil?
Right!
I'm slowly stepping down.
For example; if I discover a network security problem or a virus on one of our network PCs, I'm liable to pull the network cable before I offer explanations. Delays can jeopardise the rest of the network.
But in many cases, people don't give us secondary email addresses or phone numbers where we can contact them. In fact, many people view that as a strength--other companies such as Yahoo and Microsoft ask for much more personal information to set up an account then Google does.
However, I was surprised to read this comment:
But in many cases, people don’t give us secondary email addresses or phone numbers where we can contact them. In fact, many people view that as a strength–other companies such as Yahoo and Microsoft ask for much more personal information to set up an account then Google does.
You need to use your own products! ;)
The problem in this case arose with a transaction in Google Checkout. And guess what's required when you sign up for Google Checkout...an address and phone number. Heck, it even does a ZIP code check against the city entered (I just tried entering dummy data).
It would appear that this whole brouhaha was completely avoidable since Google actually did have contact information for Nick Saber, no?
They assumed their customer's information was compromised and that in turn their system was compromised. They have to assume any contact with the account on their system would be intercepted or received directly by whomever had compromised the account.
They would not want to give up any information on how or when they discovered the problem/intrusion so as not to allow the people who had done so to learn anything about their detection abilities.
They would assume (and in this case rightly so) that the real user would immediately contact their customer support to find out why they could not access their account.
After some verification and explaining, the user would gain the re-use of their account, or in extreme cases told that the account would be closed while an investigation occurs.
This has nothign to do with Google owning the account, it has everythign to do with you signing up for their service, allowing them to control the management, administration, and security of your use and information.
If you wished to handle your own accounts, you should get your own server with it's own security and administrative software to handle emails, document storage, and whatever else you currently use Google for...
I had my gmail account locked, and I recieved the first e-mail. I kept asking what caused it but never heard back from Google. I've archived all of my e-mail messages and use SMTP to access gmail now. If I can't use it in the future, I'll just use my own domain instead. I've never had a problem with Yahoo mail like this.
Well - if they were gonna shut down his account, how could he have read that mail? ;)
But this does indeed get at the heart of the criticism over giving Google so much of your data and resources, and frankly I'm hugely disappointed by the way this incident played out as described.
Others have noted that the response was appropriate since the various services cannot be unbundled on Google's end -- but why can't they be? I have had my bank account freeze if there is suspicious activity (usually it is just me spending too much at once), but why should this also suspend access to my e-mail (for me, my daily business and personal communication), my documents (I do store all of my docs and photos on Google's servers and haven't always had a recent backup), web history, reader, notebook/bookmarks, etc.? I use all of these services daily.
I too am a total Google fanboy and promote their services as the best out there precisely because they are all free. The test of this is not the magical way that everything "just works" every minute of every day -- I take this feat of engineering genius entirely for granted. The test is when something does not work: how is it handled, and how am I assured that my all-too-blind trust in handing over so much to this one entity is thoroughly justified?
Criticize the poor choice made as a consumer on my part, fine, but this is what Google is "selling" and this is what I'm buying: you can trust us with your most important stuff; we work our brilliant magic so you don't have to worry.
This is not Google "doing evil," (I wish people would stop jumping to that charge whenever they possibly can), and nothing is failsafe 100%, but hopefully Google will have learned about 10 really important lessons from this one tiny incident. Frankly, I'm feeling silly for not taking more precautions with my data.
As one poster pointed out previously, they had a problem with both gmail and ebay. The gmail problem was fixed within a day and the ebay problem was never fixed. Have you ever tried to resolve a problem with PayPal. They just don't care. I applaud Google for it's quick response in this case.
Normally I'd think, oh, just a glitch, but after reading all about Nick I just feel a horrific panic. Seems to only be Gmail and not anything else, but oh my, if all that's lost...
Cross your fingers for me!
I have a friend (Barbara )who recently had the same problem..
Account got deactivated "due to security beach " !!
Ok but there are important bits of information in there like for flights booked and account inforamtion for other services. !!
So surly there has to be a way for google to assist someone in migrating to a new account at least..
Its not far off being told you dont exist and you need to get born again.
With all the services they have piled up on the heap of the google experience, people live large parts of their lives through google.
Barbara works for a charity. She puts in an incredible amount of personal time and manages that time with google calendar. She spent 3 days not knowing what was going on with her email let alone her work.
Google were about as helpful as they were for Nick. Generic emails almost from an auto reply bot.
The info for a round the world trip is still locked away in the old account !! If you get any joy Nick.. I would really like to know so Barbara can have some hope too.
All the best,
Fred.
They sent me through the mill today and mangled my account via their own instructions. I contacted them and they sent me some of the dumbest solutions and they did not work. It's worse now. I'm done. I'm going over to Wordpress. They can have it and do what they like with it. I'm sorry to have to join the chorus of exiting bloggers from Blogger.com but it's not worth the bother any longer.
A long time user of Blogger.com
moving on...
I started a Wordpress account a couple of months ago to see what all the fuss is about. It's nothing compared to blogger. Hardly any functionality at all and minimal support for google apps.
Those Wordpress people don't know what they're missing.
Google has one goal, global control of information. In the process they have become--evil.
I still have all my posts because I sent them to my email program. Google is intimidating the entire Internet community. I have had to re-think putting all my eggs in one basket--on the Internet. It would be wise for small businesses to stay vitally linked offline as far as making profits are concerned. One click, an error, a virus etc. can ruin small businesses online.
I came to this site through search and think the original title was on.
Has anyone thought of how much revenue has gone back to Google as a result of bloggers losing their sites leaving Adsense earnings behind? I didn't until today. I'm done. I have a savior and it ain't google. My income is not dependent on the Internet. God help those who are.
That's a very narrow view of the future of computing.
In fact, if you look at what's happening;
IBM have finally gotten their act together and stopped trying to change Notes/Domino into Workplace. Instead, they've started moving the Lotus platform to Eclipse and Web 2.0 integration - essentially creating a collaborative cloud computing capable platform which enables corporations to start plugging their own systems into its service orientated architecture.
Google have done the same with the integration of their various technologies. Google Gadgets is a miniature version of SOA.
Microsoft has been trying to develop their cloud computing plaform for years but Windows Live has remained ..well, dead. It remains to be seen whether their latest - as yet unnamed attempt will succeed.
Google only looks like it's bent on world domination because it's collaborative cloud computing platform is the most mature available to the general public. In fact, it's IBM who is leading the way in the corporate world with some very mature technology.
Perhaps. But I would look at where a thing is headed, as to not be blinded by what it's doing along the way. Where is computing headed and why?
Progress, research, development and innovation are good things when they truly have the end goal of serving people. The average person on the street could care less about that process or the technology that comes out of it.
In the final analysis we are always like the proverbial frog in the lab jar, unaware it is being boiled to death until it's too late.
Computing is the first and only innovation to force feed the entire world into a machine. No other invention in the history of mankind has ever required an entire society to depend on it for their very existence.
Society has always had choices and fought to maintain that freedom. When you remove choices, what's left? The computer age has left people with no choices. In less than a decade the entire world of business and every household in the world will be dependent on computers, but a 16 year old kid can create a virus, crash an entire business network and they can't even catch it before it does.
It is not about why and what...exclusively. "Where" is an appropriate question. Where is it headed and what will the average non-technical person (most of us) do in such an age?
"Google only looks like it’s bent on world domination because it’s collaborative cloud computing platform is the most mature available to the general public. In fact, it’s IBM who is..."
If it looks like a duck...