You definitely are "spot on" with this post. Engagement and empowerment are key in building and sustaining a community. An audience is passive in nature, because they only watch and hear (perhaps some interaction but definitely not enough to call it a community). Through building an audience, consumers receive information, which HOPEFULLY stimulates positive brand perception and adoption. However, through the building of community, consumers are no longer just consumers - they are PEOPLE. People with similar passions, interests, problems, etc and they can share their experiences and begin dialogues which can benefit all parties involved - people make connections and are intrigued by the comments and conversations, brands can use what is said as a means to do a brand/product audit, etc.
To your point, people want to know that they are heard and that their opinions are valued. If they say something to you, they want to know it means something because they took the time and effort (as minimal as it may be) to do so. As we see many brands are utilizing twitter as a way to interact with their consumers. I think a great case in point is Virgin America and how they encourage consumers to share their thoughts and experiences (they respond to inquiries, retweet pictures that consumers post of their flight which other users can comment on - can also spark social network connections, etc).
In terms of building a community through social networking, I enjoy how Facebook enables anyone through Fan Pages to build a base and get some good dialogue going. In order to do so, the right questions have to be asked ... one should be prepared for both the positive and negative. In the case of the negative, one acknowledges it to show that you hear them and explore ways to improve and make that negative a positive. Provide incentives to your community (first looks at new products/improvements, exclusive discounts, etc) to keep the momentum going. A community takes a whole lot of work to sustain, but it's rewarding as you go along. Also, in order to sustain a community, I also believe it should be all about a brand/product at all times - brands should have fun with the community and also spark conversations from questions that all speak to their interests and lifestyle.
Also want to touch on what you said about the leader in a community -- the elusive part of the community leader in the social networking space though is that the leader(s) can change at any given moment and rather frequently. People decide to be more vocal in their posts and provide some genius insights which then can get them more attention and suddenly you're looking at a new top dog ... some people who may have been leaders sometimes just move on to something else (hey, it happens). So in building a community, there also needs to be a constant monitoring of activity to be aware of what is happening.
I plan on starting my own blog soon and I think you just inspired one of the first topics to address ... Thanks for a great read.
David Cid Brand Strategist Project 2050 (www.p2050.com) twitter - @davidecid
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Hi David--
Holy cats. I think you wrote your first blog post here! : ) What a great response. Thanks for all your thoughts. You've got a lot of value-add to what I started above, and that's the best way. Folks need to see that kind of good thinking that you've delivered.
Monitoring is definitely part of the game. I think I owe us a part 2.
AmberNaslund
· 6 months ago
The other trick is that you cannot *create* a community. It creates itself.
You may give them a reason to consider hanging around. You can build the architecture and give them things to hold on to, but ultimately it's not something you can manifest. Communities gather around common interests or affinities, and not always specific to the the "thing" you want them to. I still hear companies struggle with the "we're going to create a community for our stupid dumb thing" and think that the mere desire to create a community will cause one to spring out of the ground. Then they wonder why no one wants to join their website about batteries or something.
Strong community leaders, in my view, are there as the experience architects. We need to let those in our *audience* guide us as to what might bring them together, even if it's not around our "thing". It's our job to translate, to interpret, to build bridges and give them chairs to sit in. But ultimately, the community builds and sustains itself, with us nurturing it along the way.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Very good point. Building a community is like trying to print fan banners before the people have become fans.
frank barry
· 6 months ago
Something that might be worth more discussion is the thought that communities have a longer life span than audiences. Communities self sustrain, branch off, live, breath, think, take action ... communities are engaged after the show.
When I think of an audience I don't get the same feeling.
I know each has it's place, but when we're talking bloggin, media, marketing I think a community built around something will have a longer lasting impact.
Frank, I think it's really cool to think about a community as a living, breathing organism.
Do you think a community can last longer than an audience because an audience's natural progression is to a community? What happens to an audience between the leader's messages?
Bringing it back to the post, Chris, great chairs analogy, does ownership among the audience members turn the chairs around?
frank barry
· 6 months ago
Sort of ...
Dr. Phil has an audience, but when that show is done i don't think there will be a community formed becasue of it.
Oprah has an audience, but i also think she's build a community following that could go on for a long time.
(not that i watch these shows) :)
Kathy Sierra
· 6 months ago
What a great post, Chris. I'll take a run at your question: "How do you move from being ... just a customer into being part of a community? Is it always necessary?"
To have customers, not necessary. To have passionate users, community *is* necessary BUT... they don't usually need to be part of *your* community. For people who make products, it's often much better (and more likely/sustainable) if the user community is around whatever it is your product is a part of rather than a community ABOUT your product. A classic example is camera vs. photography. Better to have people engaged in community around photography rather than *your camera* (unless your camera is something truly unique).
More examples: Kitchen appliance community vs. cooking. Community around a specific brand of guitar vs. musicians. Community around LifeHacks/productivity vs. community around a particular brand of organizational tool.
But some software products, for example, are so powerful and unique that they, too, can have community. Final Cut Pro user groups independent of general digital filmmaking community. Java user groups vs. programming in general.
The only other point I want to make on your post was around this: "Community happens when people feel they’re among like-minded others and when they feel their contributions matter." I'd modify that slightly... your description applies to people who *stay* in a community, but people often join one not to have their contributions matter, but to benefit from the contributions of the more experienced members.
This is especially true with user groups, where people often *join* because they NEED help. They have nothing to contribute and aren't focused on whether their own contributions matter. In many communities, one of the main goal's of the community "manager" or moderators is to get people to "graduate" from question askers to question answerers in the shortest possible time. Because the sooner participants DO feel that their contributions matter, the more likely they are to have a richer, deeper, more lasting experience as a member. And of course, SOMEONE has to keep helping the newbies ; )
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
You're absolutely right, Kathy. I'm working with a few brands right now where I've somewhat successfully steered them into the mindset of lifestyle marketing, where we talk to "people who work in coffeeshops and airports" versus "people who use GoToMeeting."
Ahhh, I like your modification. So if a community empowers or enhances the experience, people will join because they can benefit. That fits more with Charlene Li's ladder.
Jim "Genuine" Turner
· 5 months ago
..and why are you not blogging again Kathy? ;) Love all the dialogue here.
Facebook User
· 6 months ago
Great post. is the picture from the NINJA show?
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Yes. :)
Stan Phelps
· 6 months ago
A great question. Are you engaging in dialogue or simply talking to your audience? Is it about the ability to relinquish control?
Maria Reyes-McDavis
· 6 months ago
I can't even tell you how profoundly this post, especially your statement about the chairs sums it all up for me and a great metaphor to provide to my clients who just aren't getting it. This understanding has great implications on what you do and how you do it online! Great, great stuff!
Graham Farrar
· 6 months ago
Great post. is the picture from the NINJA show? If you haven't read it, Seth Godin's book on Tribes is a good (and quick) read.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Yes. And I'm a big fan of Tribes. I emailed Seth while reading an advanced copy and called him a bastard for solving a recurring business problem I was having.
TheJennTafur
· 6 months ago
Communities continue to grow while audiences will fade. I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. It helps me understand what I am going through now with my community who I adore tremendously. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts!
chrisguillebeau
· 6 months ago
Chris, thanks so much. I also like the chairs analogy.
I think people in most communities, even organic ones in the Twitter age, are looking for somem form of leadership. You can have a community with the chairs facing each other, but unless it is a very small group there still needs to be a Vaynerchuk or a Brogan to bring some balance and direction. I agree that this can be done without turning things into a monologue.
Anyway, great post!
Danny Batelic
· 6 months ago
Hi Chris, You've really nailed it for me with the chair direction metaphor. Moving from audience to community should be a natural progression, but sometimes the chairs are stuck in the one spot and we have to get up and find somewhere else to sit.
thank you for sharing this, ::danny
wendy kloiber
· 6 months ago
Have you ever been to theater in the round?
For me, the difference between audience and community is all about who's in charge of the mike and who gets to decide what we're putting on stage.
Let me pit Here Comes Everybody against Tribes for a minute. There's a difference between audience-based communities and autonomous communities. If Ashton Kutcher dies tomorrow, so does his community. If Jimmy Wales dies tomorrow, Wikipedia will be fine.
So I think chairs aren't the critical thing. The critical thing is: are you building something that's bigger than you are? Will the show go on without you?
Great post! Fun to think about.
Wendy @learningashland
MNHeadhunter Paul DeBettignies
· 6 months ago
Chris,
"...which direction the chairs are pointing." That's what I have been thinking about, trying to articulate but been unable to say.
If I may be so bold to ask you a question, the blog I write gets very few comments but I get a lot of email. I think it is my writing style and I am not complaining. Maybe because some of it is about their career and not wanting to share it publicly.
Any suggestions short of asking them directly to post a comment? The conversation that would come about would be awesome to see. Folks could help each other.
I have a community that I see and interact with but they do not see each other.
Thanks.
Connie Bensen
· 6 months ago
Hi Paul, Are you writing in general terms or about specifics? Sometimes that affects how people feel about responding. Another thought is to have them share their idea in a general sense as a guest post. Others would see that you're openly encouraging interaction.
Lori Guffey
· 6 months ago
i don't think it's necessary for every situation to be community based. there’s still a place for "get out of my business & just sell me a shirt already! i do not want to talk about the shirt and why i want it and where i plan to wear it and no you can not have my email address"....you get the point.
a few ways to move customers from audience to engagement/community is for companies to become more human w/ quirks, likes, dislikes, the whole bit. being human means being empathetic, contributing to the communal team by adding value*, living by principles, and not being annoying (just to start).
people like to be noticed in the narcissistic social arena so personalization must move from just a few customer database silos to cross sectioning the cross sections of the database to customize content including incorporating communal input/ideas in a very visible way.
another change essential to moving from audience to community will have to be the speed at which corp amer reacts. a community can’t be built if people are left hanging while you're making up your mind/going thru red tape to get approval to respond. those of us who have been around since the dot com boom have fought this fight for over a decade but with social media, the need for speed and empowerment is imperative. Lagging behind & following others to the gate will not ingratiate brands to this generation.
*value does not mean what the company thinks people should find valuable, it's what customers tell you they want, either directly or through behavior. this is why you must be engaged in social platforms. behavioral trends will show up first in communities like twitter.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
You're loaded with good points here, Lori. I agree about the "people buying shirts don't always want community" idea. I usually say that about soda pop. I also agree about value. It's not necessarily what the company thinks is valuable.
In fact, you've helped me rethink part of a proposal I'm doing.
Dan Porcher
· 6 months ago
I recently saw a statistic that just under 2/3 of Facebook and Twitter users follow a brand and only about 42% of those who do follow brands have conversed with those brands. The article didn't say how many of those followers interact regularly, but I would guess a far smaller number.
As Lori points out, there are a plenty of times when people just want to buy a product without getting engaged. The question is, how many of your customers do you have to engage in community to have a positivve impact on your company? Are the people who do interact with that community also the connectors and trendsetters who influence other people?
Moreover, I think the mere existence of a community has a beneficial impact on non-participants. For example, I have taken advantage of information in client forums on company websites but have only participated actively with a small subset.
Michael Ray Hopkin
· 6 months ago
Chris, you write a cogent example of how new media is changing our interaction...with the world. The words 'audience' and 'community' provide historical context to help us understand what we can accomplish.
Your comment about "feeding the system" to keep either an audience or a community alive is spot-on. If your goal is to create a big audience, you have to keep the chairs turned towards you; you have to perform. If you intend to create a community, you have to lead out in bringing people together in a common cause and encourage them to spread the word and bring others into the community.
I appreciate the visual picture your post creates; thanks. -Michael
Rick Hardy
· 6 months ago
Chris, great post. An example of a product creating community would be Meguiar's car products whose mantra was Serious Car Care for Car Crazy People. Out of this and a serious community around the world of car crazy people, they created car events around the world, a television show, an annual awards show, etc. Celebrities and everyday people got involved. The brand became more than car care, it became a community.
In higher education, there's an expectation of community. A college is an academic community. Students live on campus. They spend time with the product in the classroom. This expectation means that colleges have to show what kind of community they have during the recruitment process. It's one of the major reasons why students will spend or invest some much money for their education. But it also means that when the community doesn't function like it should, student-customers, parent-customers, etc. feel a sense of violation and loss. If you create community and market community, you have to make sure you stay true to your brand.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Brilliant example! I love it. I love the TITLE of it.
Sarveshen Govender
· 6 months ago
Awesome post by Chris B on Audience or Communities
Greg Pincus
· 6 months ago
Great post and imagery. I'd say, though, that quite often the answer to "audience or community" is "both." Chairs are movable, and we can flip them around mighty quickly. Take this very post. We're definitely community here in the comments: engaged, sharing ideas and thoughts, and with you right there in the mix. But between the post and the comments, we're looking at your blue Thesis box, and we're purely audience.
The shift certainly doesn't bother me (I learned of Thesis here and probably bought it through your link!), but it does illustrate that a community can also be an audience at the same time. If the community ties are strong enough, it can also become a sustained audience - like your Britney vs. the Dead comparison - and for a business, I would think that would be the goal.
It's a tricky balance to achieve, of course, and I think your post is a great way to focus folks' thinking. Because if they can't answer the question, their actions will probably have the same end result as re-arranging the direction of the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
Vijay Rayapati
· 6 months ago
Excellent read Chris. I feel Community is something is sustainable in the term long term if we can empower them properly to help each other while our company or brand acts as catalyst in the conversations taking place.
You cannot manage the noise from group of Audience unless you control it which is not sustainable in the long term.
Fabulous Photo Gifts
· 6 months ago
Hi Chris - on the nail as always.
You're right - communities don't sell products but communities do spread recommendation and first hand reviews (through general chit chat or as a result of a direct question) and it is those recommendations and reviews that 'sell' products.
So I suppose the real question is if you are using communities to sell something, how are you going about building recommendations?
Jonathan.
P.S Chairs? Who has time to sit down at the moment?
Mike Kazell
· 6 months ago
Great post Chris. What would you say are some key tools to allowing your community to increase recognition of your services without losing control of the overall message most important to you? I like the idea of having the most passionate people you serve promote your services, just want to make sure the strength of the message is consistent!
Sharon Hearty
· 6 months ago
Thought provoking and very relevant post as businesses, everyday folks and the comms & marketing pro's out there grapple with understanding this fundamental difference in social media. To date we are used to 'audience' which is talking to or demonstrating to thus the conversation is largely one way. Now we have to adjust and manage this whole new world of engagement in two way conversation and being part of a community. Not always are the most vocal the most valuable as there are many listeners who learn and grow by just doing that. So our challenge is moving out of our comfort zone if we are in business from one of 'pushing out messages' to one of 'inviting like minded people in'. 'Building community relevance' is most important and then comfortable dialogue/engagement will ensue from that.
Siobhan bulfin
· 6 months ago
wow this is timely and so necessary. Thank you :)
Carla
· 6 months ago
community. It's all I got :)
Sonny Gill
· 6 months ago
To engage me? Treat me like a person. Simple as that. Well, almost.
Treat me like a person that you know loves your product but you don't necessarily take advantage of that, from a sales perspective. You take advantage of my passion, you take advantage of my wanting to connect with others that have similar passions, you take advantage of that commonality I have with thousands of others and provide a setting where we can get together and talk shop, around your industry and probably your product. Show me the voice and face of the community leader that's helping build this group of fanatics. And let me see that person, not so much as a leader, but as someone who has just as big a passion as I do, someone who sees me as more than a seat number in the audience.
That's how you engage me.
toniraebrotons
· 6 months ago
Great post, Chris! The word "audience" means something different to me. As a theatre actor, I find that the audience is an integral part of a performance; in fact, my performance is different each time because of the audience. After reading your post, I realize that ultimately, that's what live performances really want to do (at least the live performances I've ever done)--create a community, not just throw up an invisible wall for folks to peer through. Go watch TV if you want to do that.
...but that's just me...
I also work for an association who is in the test phase of an online community. Slowly but surely we're getting participation; however, we're in the "what do we need to do to engage you?" phase. While I knew our members would not join right away and start using the tools we provided them, I didn't realize how difficult it would be for them to even respond to the invitiation. Perhaps we're not asking the right questions or offering the right reasons...
As you can see, this inspired me in many different ways. Cheers!
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
I'm thrilled, and you're right about theater performances. Why go to theater if it's not interactive in some way or another. You'll cringe, perhaps, but that's why I like Blue Man Group. Essentially, the performance is the same, but seeing the VARIANCE in what each audience participation spot brings makes me happy.
Glad you're engaged!
toniraebrotons
· 6 months ago
Not cringing at all! Blue Man Group is exactly what I mean. Saw them in Chicago and thoroughly enjoyed myself, though I know folks who hated it, probably the same folks who are attending live theatre and pass a bucket of chicken while seated in the front row. WSJ wrote about it: http://bit.ly/6ePCZ
Onward!
Jason C. BLais
· 6 months ago
Chris, great article and important ideas to consider. I would say most people's knee-jerk reaction will be to say that they want a community, though that's not always what's best. One could consider Zappos for a good model. Zappos, the ecommerce site, is building an audience of people to sell to, however people have a misperception that Tony Hsieh has built a community. Check out his updates on Twitter, and what you'll see is that he rarely ever engages or interacts with people thru Twitter. If you scan through for @ links, you'll see that he primarily includes them as a form of name dropping- not in reply to conversation.
There's really nothing wrong with this. For most businesses, developing an audience is actually more important than a community. As a blogger, however, I work to develop a community. I need the feedback and interaction for my blog to be worth my time. Not only do I want to share my knowledge and experience, but I also want to learn from others.
Just remember, whether an audience or a community is what you want, be sure that you're focusing on the right model for the right reasons.
edwardboches
· 6 months ago
Chris: This is a terrific post. I often use a similar metaphor to explain to clients their role in the social media space. The idea being that advertising is like being behind a podium at the front of the room and the tv network is the company that guarantees and audience sitting in chairs all lined up on a row. Only problem is those people may or may not care to pay attention. Social media is like having all those people in a room with no chairs and not podium and no microphone and you have to join the community, earn attention, bring something of interest and make friends. Your post obviously is more about creating a community rather than attempting to join one that already exists, but in either case the role of a brand, or marketer is the same: listen, participate, respect and always bring something of value that isn't necessarily what you want to bring, but what people would like to receive.
Rachel Happe
· 6 months ago
This reminds me a lot of why I wrote my "Social Media is Not Community" (http://www.thesocialorganization.com/2008/07/so...) a ways back - its essentially the same as saying an audience is not a community. From my perspective, this also means something very different is terms of how you operationalize it. The strategy, tools, management, metrics are all different.
Glad to hear more people spreading that message. Thanks Chris!
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
Yours is a wonderful piece. Hell, I still quote your thinking around internal enterprise platforms and their value from the first day I met you at the Gilbane Lighthouse event. Maybe I was channeling a bit of my inner Happe? : )
Gina Kay Landis
· 6 months ago
Chris, this is perhaps the most succinct definition of the difference between audience and community I have seen. (That may not be a correctly constructed sentence, ah well). Anyway, I think external community/audience difficulties may be easier to resolve than internal community/audience issues that exist due to acquisitions that go on in all sorts of businesses.
At any rate, the previous comment that switching between the "community" and "audience" focus can change rapidly is well taken. I don't think that switching is what the gist of your post was about though - instead, its the overarching intent of the leadership entity - are you pushing out or circling and collaborating? Among salespeople, notoriously competitive, each salesperson may want to form their own community called a "sphere of influence" - however as the community is in its stages of formation, the "audience" intent is sometimes more evident than the "community" intent. Part of the reasoning is the differing ways the sale takes place - did someone get something that the other did not (a reduction in fees, perhaps, etc.). How often do consumers of a service get together with other consumers? The sea change for you, dear pirate, has been that you notice consumers do want to talk with each other, thereby creating their own community, at times outside of the leadership entity. This is done at times for solace in case of mistreatment, for accountability for the leadership entity to treat all fairly, and a host of other reasons.
Thanks for sharing what you know.
RenaR
· 6 months ago
I don't think that it needs to be one or the other. In most cases it is, but there is the ability to have both an audience and a community. Take Wikipedia - the majority of people who come to Wikipedia never try to edit anything. They come to look, get what they need, and then they are on their way. There is also a community involved in Wikipedia that keeps that tries to make it a better site, cleans up pages, and adds content. There are many lively discussions on their "Talk" pages.
If you blog, all you get is an audience. Yes, there are those of us that add our comments, but we aren't working together to make something great. They are very useful, and you can learn a lot. There are a ton of great blogs out there (this on included) that I visit on a regular basis.
They both have their place, but I guess that I'm just partial to the wiki model.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
You're echoing a bit of what Kathy Sierra pointed out above. I tend to think of community as a group of contributors. We all know it's more like 10% contributors and 90% beneficiaries.
Is conversation the only constant of a community versus audience experience? Is it that people talk or don't? Maybe that's the hinge.
James Young
· 6 months ago
One reason I think organizations want communities is that communities are rarely abandoned. In the physical world, even when you move from a community, you still feel a connection to the old neighborhood. You still care. Audiences end as soon as the show stops, or the next show starts.
Jeremie
· 6 months ago
I don't think I fully understood this concept until I became a teacher. One of the main challenges as a teacher is classroom management: making sure nobody gets lit on fire and that somebody learns something.
When your students are your audience more of them end up having to stop, drop, and roll.
When your students and the teacher are part of a community, that is when learning starts to take place.
Luckily, my personality as a teacher led naturally to creating a community with my students. I make sure that they are part of the decisions being made, they help direct how our classes will work out, and, I think most importantly, my students and I take the time to get to know each other as actual people not just the roles we play as student and teacher.
As I write that I think that may be one of the keys to the difference between audience and commmunity. In an audience people only know the roles that each plays. In a community everyone has a deeper understanding of who each other are as people.
Jeremie
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
When i read the first paragraph, I thought about that book, "Teach like your hair's on fire." Funny that you used the phrase to the negative.
Jeremie
· 6 months ago
I had not heard of that book, I will have to check it out. My reference to fire comes from a friend who taught in a behaviour classroom and while helping a student with math had his shirt lit on fire by the student in the desk behind.
So in this case, yes, negative.
Stephanie Valentine
· 6 months ago
Chris -- You are amazing in how often you reach out to people and how many social relationships you seem to be able to juggle. You responded to comments and direct messages from me and I felt honored. I instantly moved from audience to part of your community. Also the fact that you feed the community makes me want to be part of your community. Your point about Gary putting forth his strong opinions struck me--I notice that people who are not afraid to put out strong opinions (backed up by expertise) gather communities and garner true interaction. I think that's part of each blogger's job in finding a unique online voice. That's just one of the many things I've learned from you. So, thanks, for being you and for feeding/building such a great community.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
You're not wrong, Stephanie. Mincing words isn't anyone's ticket to building a stronger relationship. Hedging bets and writing me-too posts gets you nowhere.
Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad you're here.
Stuart Foster
· 6 months ago
Be human, fallible and flexible. Don't be afraid to take the lead on something and direct your muscle accordingly though. To do this effectively you just need to go for it and be unafraid. Of course...I am talking to Chris Brogan...damn it.
Mário
· 6 months ago
I was thinking about the subject just a few days ago because of blogs. Many people are more interested in creating audience instead of community.
Personally I would prefer to have a good community with 500 people instead of an audience of 10.000. I believe having a community can only bring you good things to the future.
Douglas Karr
· 6 months ago
Hmmm. Whether or not someone decides to 'be the leader' doesn't mean that there's a difference between a community or an audience. I would argue that all communities have leaders and an audience and community are closer than we think. A leader doesn't need a title or a stage - leaders are everywhere. They are people that inspire and build a following, whether intended or not.
Even at work you have informal leaders who don't hold the title but wield some great power in moving the company, the products and the services. You could say that they're just part of the 'community' of employees but that's not true. They still have an audience who takes action based on their leadership, formal or informal.
Suzanna Stinnett
· 6 months ago
There are so many things happening in this article, Chris. What is most helpful to me is the chair direction concept. Pointing the chairs at each other is the work of an artful leader. Thank you - I will write more later when I'm awake. - Suzanna Stinnett (@brainmaker)
Kevin
· 6 months ago
Chris,
To continue to the thought here, the fundamental difference between an audience and a community is that an audience will disperse when they've received the expected value and is no longer an audience. A community, however, is always a community as the value is not finite. Even if you are not engaged with other individuals, engaging in the practice (or product/service) indicates that you are in fact part of the community.
While the direction of the chairs is certainly important - the ability to sit in those chairs for long periods of time and take them with you when you go to other places where an audience gathers is certainly just as important.
Maybe we should sell ad space on those chairs...make them look like Nascars?
Chris - I've been thinking a lot lately about business and marketing strategy and how an innovative strategy probably trumps an innovative product.
So, I'm thinking this point "Communities don’t sell product. Communities empower users of products or services, or people with like-minded interests to interact." could be a strategy that someone starting a business would use as the innovation - in other words, find like-mined interests that want to engage and come up with a product or service that empowers it.
I ran across a company called OrbitBaby that was started by a couple Stanford design engineers who figured out how to innovate baby related products as an overall strategy and whether they planned is this way or not, have built a community around innovation rather than actual products.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
First, your example is awesome.
Second, McDonalds is marketing. It *IS* marketing. Their burgers aren't better. Their operations and training are leaner/faster/easier-to-replicate than others, but what sells the product is marketing. They own it.
Innovative? Now that's a question, with regards to McD. At this point, I'd say they have muscle on their side.
Of course you won't get any argument from me - every business is a marketing business and everyone in every business is in the marketing business.
Kelly McFalls
· 6 months ago
This is a good reminder to marketers about what we want to accomplish with social networking!
Allison Majure
· 6 months ago
Try this contrast on for size. Audiences gape, communities converse. Gaping (like watching TV cf. Jerry Mander's Four Arguments for the Elimination of TV) involves a different kind of brain wave indicative of ***suspended critical judgement***. Conversing engages all circuits, more aware set o' brain waves. Just a thought, from a community minded gal.
Ken Moir
· 5 months ago
*Wonderful* to see J. Mander's "Four Arguments" cited here! That's an absolutely essential book, decades ahead of its time....
Jeff Korhan
· 6 months ago
Excellent insights. There is also and insight in here for speakers. Getting them out of their chairs and interacting builds a community our of that audience.
Lori Hoeck
· 6 months ago
This post and all the comments come at a perfect time for me. I'm trying to explain this subject to someone who grew up with the old image of the speaker at the podium or the teacher at the head of the class and no interaction welcomed at all. Thank you Chris and thanks to your well-informed comment writers.
Will
· 6 months ago
You can build a community by creating a social network on ning.com (free) or create a forum on your website (using phpbb also free). I also like the idea of a membership site where you can provide lots of backstage content (videos, new demos, photos, etc) and potentially charge a monthly fee for this.
jer979
· 6 months ago
Awesome post...as usual!
Sounds like our discussion/presentations at Soc Med Jungle back in Nov where our chat was one of the drivers in my decision to focus on the specific area of 'community driven marketing' :-)
Fantastic topic and observations, Chris. I think there are some sound lessons here for our broadcast media clients.
designtramp
· 6 months ago
I do think that you can have a community that acts like an audience, something that's been touched on in the comments. The interaction appears non-existent as the community in audience garb arrives to absorb the performance or conversation. They are polite, not heckling, but maybe softly chuckling or snorting derisively. It is after they leave the house that they become the community, carrying forth the message and imbuing it with their own opinion.
Being aware of the different perspectives that exist to whatever message you are putting out there, having the tenacity to seek out those opposing views, allows you to gear your performance to address those things.
There is a leap of faith involved with all of this, we trust the writers to be communicating in an honest way and we trust out listeners to consider, whether it's in a comment they leave or a conversation they have after the fact. It's odd how even though the word "social" gets bandied about, this process can in some moments feel very isolating. I think the key to moving forward is being able to ride out the different speeds that occur.
And, scene.
Rick Morgan
· 6 months ago
Great points and clearly and important distinction when a small business is creating a social networking strategy. Here is a question I ponder. Can a small service business really build community (using your definitions). For example, can a main street independent insurance agency build community or is having an engaged audience the most they can hope for? Is there a difference in the formation of community and audience with products vs. services?
Also - I like the idea of community around concept vs. product - i.e.,photography vs. camera.
Ananda Leeke
· 6 months ago
Great post. Thanks Chris. I will share your post on my Black women in social media series that airs on BAP Living Radio on Sunday, June 7th. We are talking about Black women who use social media to create online communities.
loususi
· 6 months ago
fantastic writing as always ...
so ... audience or community ... broadcast vs conversation ... static vs dynamic ... there is a learning style, a behavioral difference that the concept of 'audience' promotes vs what 'community' promotes ...
i believe the days of simply broadcasting a message are closing up real quick, right? or, if you put something 'out there', it will most likely end up on some community-oriented site that gets commented on, repurposed, remixed, mashed up, etcetera ...
the much more powerful experience to set up and be involved in anticipates a more dynamic approach ... people interacting with | reacting with what you said | did | distributed ... and this dynamic approach is also, in the long run, so much more engaging for people, so much more powerful
kristin
· 6 months ago
Fantastic Post!
I recently started using Twitter to meet other people with similar interests and without realizing it, was choosing to follow companies that understand this difference.
These companies add value to my network, and yes, although they are creating brand awareness and tweeting about products, their engagement in the community came first. Because of their involvement in my "community", I listen (as a community member) when they tweets about topics of interest and I listen when they tweet about a product (as an audience member).
There are very few that seem to be able to do this well, and I will definitely be passing this post along! Thanks again!!
Kristin @geekgirls
ChrisDonaldson
· 6 months ago
Hey Chris,
You say: The only difference between an audience and a community is which direction the chairs are pointing.
I'd add another disctinction: an audience comes together to listen. A community comes together to converse. That's really why Barak was so successful, he engaged in conversation and two-way dialogue (both in person and online) and broke down the wall that traditionally seperates the stage from the populace. It's about engagement. But, of course, I'm preacher to the choir!
Chris Donaldson
Jack Repenning
· 6 months ago
> The only difference between an audience and a community is which direction the chairs are pointing.
That is brilliant!
> Think about the difference between The Grateful Dead and Britney Spears.
That may be something almost no one can judge ;-)
DairyScienceMark
· 6 months ago
While it's important to distinguish between a community and an audience, as your post does, may I respectfully bring a bit more perspective to this discussion.
As a community/audience grows, you have both mixed together. By their own choice, it's a mixture. The 'seats' are all different directions, and they change directions, depending on the needs/interests of the individual.
I've been moderating a virtual community of dairy cow professionals for now 20 years. Yes, 20 years. We started using the old Bitnet and horrible terminal emulators for e-mail. As more people got access to the Internet, more people subscribed to our listserv, Dairy-L. Our community grew slow at first, but has now stabilized at between 1,700 and 2,000 for the last 10 years or so. Listserv is not as 'rich' of a communication media as this, but many of our community remain at the end of a long-tin copper wire and still do dial-up. Consequently, we stay with vanilla e-mail.
When I meet members of this 'virtual community' in f2f mode, I always ask them about why they are or are not active contributors. They tell me that they still want to get the e-mails because they learn from the exchange of others and they want to have this 'virtual community' as a potential resource for the future.
Giving people something that they want/need is the key. Let them put the 'chairs' in whatever direction they want, and don't be concerned about it. They'll put them in the order that's appropriate at that time.
Listening to the needs of the community/audience is also important, and I've found that it's useful to engage people in multiple modalities. Yes, some dairy farmers, veterinarians and advising professionals are now using social networking sites, but they're mostly just trying to see what's useful for them.
Hope that helps.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
It helps tons. There was one recurring theme that I missed: some people come to community just to observe and absorb. In fact, yours is the straw that breaks the dairy cow's back. I'll edit the post just a hair.
Ronit Goldstand
· 6 months ago
I totally agree. There are many resources that I utilize online which could come under the "community" heading; sometimes I feel like contributing, other times I prefer just listening. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the "community" aspect of it though. Take blog posts, for example. I really enjoy reading all the back and forth in the comments, often more than the post itself. I rarely add anything to the discussion myself (this being an exception, of course!).
Bu then - that's what I do in f2f "communities" as well. It's just a personality thing - if what other people are saying is more interesting than anything I have to say, and I don't feel that there is anything important that I need to be add, I simply won't say anything at all. On twitter, as well, I tend to act as more of a conduit, passing along info that is already out there, but that I found interesting or valuable enough to share with others.
Great post, Chris, and great comments everyone!
-Ronit
Rachel M. Esterline
· 6 months ago
As a public relations professional, I see how this could be integrated into campaigns. No longer do people want to be just talked to. They want to interact with each other...in a community. I think this post serves as a nice reminder to me for when I'm planning certain things - I should strive to build a community.
Excellent post.
Jef Nance
· 6 months ago
Chris, great thoughts. Funny that brand loyalty (Levis, Ford, Frigidaire) may now be replaced by... people loyalty (Seth Godin, Tony Robbins... or Chris Brogan)
An unknown individual has instant access to millions, and millions have instant access to celebrities--in real time, even. Couldn't do that with Clark Gable, but Ashton Kutcher's right there.
Brands are (on their way?) out, people are in. And the chairs can be turned by all... all at once. And suddenly there's a no leader and a new 'owner' of the audience... or community.
-jef
Jef Nance
· 6 months ago
My bad editing, should have said, "And suddenly there's a NEW leader and a new 'owner' of the audience... or community."
What happens if you have swivel chairs? The problem is companies/brands cannot decide if they want to empower the community, spam the community or squash the community and oftentimes go back and forth in knee jerk reactions to what the individuals making up community/audience do. Who owns the chairs? Another problem is the company/brand thinks they own the chairs...what happens when the community/audience picks up their chair and moves locations? The community is created and maintained organically. Companies/brands do not create the communities...we (companies/brands/community managers) should be thankful for a seat and ability to engage.
Chris Brogan
· 6 months ago
I love the swivel chair idea. : )
DennisStevenson
· 6 months ago
Chris, thanks for this. (and @mackcollier too for pointing me here). You once commented that if my blog had a full text RSS you might consider subscribing (it still doesn't). I've let myself become lazy - I prefer to read blogs with full text RSS, so I don't have to go to the website (that one extra click). Consequently, I've become lax at commenting.
Time for a mid-year's resolution. Comment more and participate in the community!
Heather Allard
· 6 months ago
One of the most exciting things I've witnessed while writing The Mogul Mom, my blog for mom entrepreneurs, is seeing my readers go from audience to community. They leave amazing, supportive comments not just on the blog posts but FOR each other, always cheering each other on. BUT--the MOST gratifying thing for me has been seeing these wonderful mom entrepreneurs reach out to each other BEYOND my blog--they have formed friendships and partnerships, always with the same knowledge--that we are stronger together, when we move from audience to community.
Thank you, Chris...this is a very powerful post. I like to think that my chairs have gone from rows lined up facing the stage to a big, wide circle that makes it easy to reach out to each other.
Point of clarification: You said "A large percentage of people come to the community to absorb the rewards of that community without contributing back in."
In response I say: I might go to Wiki to look up information about British Rock band Pink Floyd. I don't contribute per se, because I have no original knowledge, no value to add. On the other hand, the very author might read my blog on how to handle a specific home improvement. Different communities you say? Not really.. each is a sub-community of our larger community we call Humanity.
The trick then for a media company is to link all of these communities together.
Mathias Eichler
· 6 months ago
I like your picture of the position of the chairs and totally agree with you. I've been trying to put this in words since a while. Especially when looking at using social media tools for local communities. Not gathered around a single interest from all over the world, but geographically connected i.E. living in the same city and the power of what those tools could do for the community! The real community!
Louise Tipton
· 6 months ago
Hi Chris, awesome post! I'm English by the way, but just have to say awesome all the time, perhaps as a defiant act of rebellion against my country of birth ;) The chair analogy really helped crystallize my thinking around the shape and value of community vs audience, great way to think about it. I think the notion of many people 'feeding' off the content and value that only a small number actually create, is slowing starting to change, as we become a more participatory society. Just look at what our President is doing to encourage community action and interaction.
Christine Fife
· 6 months ago
What a fantastic point of view and I'm glad your chair seems to face all different directions! No, I don't believe it is always necessary to be part of the community (as a consumer that is). But as a business, I do think companies need to be involved in communities that touch on either their products, brand in general, or communities that "meet" to discuss the needs or wants that can be fulfilled/addressed by your company's offerings.
In the market conversation there are three groups: Influencers who are the people/orgs who most commonly raise topics to discuss, Participants (kind of like the chairs facing into the discussion circle) who comment on, question and pass along the topics raised and the Listeners. Most consumers are just listeners. They look to the market conversation taking place in "communities" and other locations to help them determine how to fulfill their wants and needs.
For a business, the best way to engage in the communities is with a conversation marketing approach: 1) To become part of the discussion as a Participant 2) listen closely to the other Participants and Influencers 3) Provide quality insight into fulfilling the market's wants and needs, especially for the Listeners 4) Make yourself available to Influencers, Participants and even Listeners if they choose to come to you for information. 5) Work toward developing Influencer status by initiating topics about fulfilling wants and needs (not just about how your product can do it)
Thanks for the perspective.
Erika Penzer Kerekes
· 6 months ago
Dan - do you have a source for that statistic on % of FB and Twitter users who follow brands who have actually interacted with the brand? I have to tell you, I don't think 42 percent is an "only" - I think it's HUGE. Almost half of the people who follow a brand have reached out and interacted in some say? That's tremendous.
Erika Penzer Kerekes
· 6 months ago
Sorry - meant that last comment to be a response to an earlier comment by Dan Porcher.
Also, Chris, when you compared the audience engagement of the Grateful Dead to Britney Spears, which were you implying engaged its audience better? Because, if it was the Dead, clearly you were not sitting with a group of 11-year-old girls at the Britney concert. I was. Every little girl under the age of 14 in that arena was completely engaged and felt (and acted and continues to be) part Britney's community. For better or worse.
Patrick Prothe
· 6 months ago
Sometimes it's important to just listen and observe. I may not always feel like I have something of value to add, so I remain passive. But my mind might be digesting this and thinking about the cool ways of applying what I'm hearing to my corner of the world.
I also think it's important for companies to act more like an audience - listen more and talk less. But perhaps in that fashion they're creating a community by facilitating the conversation and acting as a nurturing leader interested in learning from those they serve.
I also think that communities will become more transient in the face of rapid change. With so many new shiny objects sprouting daily there's a lot of competition for community 'members'. It becomes harder to sustain interest in many cases. And we all can only participate meaningfully in a finite number. I read somewhere that one can only maintain 4 to 5 REALLY CLOSE friendships with less and less interaction as you move out from the central friend circle and the # grows.
As always cool, useful thoughts. Thanks!
Gary May
· 6 months ago
Quite simply: communities are sustainable, audiences are not. What brands, entertainers and many more try to create is emphasized by 'staying power' and not 'commonality'. In an environment where the audience's engagement goes beyond an event, gathering or occasion you can start to experience community.
Community can define an event but an audience can't define a community. When you look at some causes and brands, they have been able to create huge communities: Scion, (RED) movement, Habitat for Humanity to name a few. There is a die hard belonging as well as a desire to associate. Watch an absolutely great movie and afterward, does everyone share numbers and email addresses and get back together? Nope...at least not around here...
Some people even go as far as 'identifying' with brands that have become part of our social awareness: Coke, Nike, Kleenex, etc. Definitely strong brands that have created more than an audience...but they're not communities.
Chris, you've brought up some absolutely great points (again) and I'm compelled to see how this impacts other conversations I'm involved with since brand and community are so lacking in the industry I spend most of my time in. You've got a great community here...
Twitter @imacsweb
Jennifer Davis
· 6 months ago
This is a great post and a good reminder of how to identify communities. I thought it best to immortalize one of the quotes of it into a cartoon that I can keep at my desk. See http://jenniferbdavis.blogspot.com/2009/06/diff....
David Baeza
· 6 months ago
Great observation Chris. The desire to be a part of a group runs deep. The level of engagement we choose is an interesting topic (chair forward / chair backward). Some people are by-standers, some are jump-in-the-deep-enders, listeners, quite advocates, and leaders. To have a meaningful community you need them all. Communities, in most cases, can have high attrition resulting in the need for constant recruitment. For example, Team in Training which is a fundraising arm for The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. I joined that community when my Mother had Leukemia. My team raised almost $200K. After my Mother passed away I quickly dropped that community. Not because it’s a bad community, but because its personal value diminished and was a personal reminder of something very painful. However, the result is I became a Triathete, a competent fundraiser, and joined a new community and found like minded people, and so on. My point is that there is an ebb and flow from passive audience member to community member, that can be very empowering.
David Baeza Twitter: davidbaeza
justinrfrench
· 6 months ago
Chris, very thoughtful post. I try to be both. i feel i am caught in the middle, yet my passion and ambition far exceeds my talent. I fully understand business and technology, but somewhat new to the whole marketing game. but these worlds have now come together for me in the last 2 years. I first had to market my IT consulting business and while doing that stumbled upon a new start-up launch as you know. What i do know is that i consider you a great mentor and tell every single business person i am helping make sense of all this online marketing science i meet to follow you. Keep up the great work- Justin
Megan Cunningham
· 6 months ago
I would propose:
Community = connection built around a bond built through a shared experience, or a large collection of shared interests and values.
Audience = connection built around identical place/time position, and singular shared experience.
RE: What do people need to do to engage you? How do you move from being part of the audience, or just a customer into being part of a community?
My suggestion: invite participation...at whatever level. More speciically: teach the community to do something cool, interesting, better than they can already do...using your product/service.
What would engage me is the prospect that by engaging I could get more valuable information. Much of the comments I tend to see on blogs are really about people voting on the writers opinion, or agreeing with it or disagreeing with it. I want to see new information from you, but more importantly from the other members of the community, as a result of my engaging in your blog.
jonknight
· 6 months ago
Geez, it's standing room only in here....
(couldn't resist it, Chris. Get me a chair, would'ya?)
JanetEngel
· 6 months ago
this is just excellent-- It seems that so many do sit on the sidelines and just watch and listen. I organized a Facebook group on social media for Travel Industry professionals. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=778289953... ) but I long to see more interaction and postings from the now 200 members. There is very little activity from them, so I find myself continually posting content. Maybe I need to be asking better questions?
TheNewBornBaby
· 6 months ago
Excellent post where truth surfaces throughout. Thanks. I'll re-read this many times.
Lynn Jordan
· 6 months ago
Great discussion of the difference between audience and community. I do think you need to engage with both groups and form relationships.
GrowMap
· 6 months ago
This is an exceptional post, Chris - even from you where exceptional is the standard you've set. While many choose to only be audiences, even if they won't participate I just wish they would make the effort to send others so those others could benefit too.
Being only an audience is ultimately selfish. Yes, time is short. Yes, we have much else to do. Those don't excuse you from never giving back anywhere. You don't have to give back everywhere but you really should give back somewhere.
fredwilson
· 6 months ago
such a great post Chris
i started out wanting an audience and found that a community is so much better
Ria Sharon
· 6 months ago
Love this, Chris. I'll take a stab at your question... community requires CONNECTION! It's those two elements you mentioned, feeling like you are among like-minded others and then feeling the exchange of energy within the group. I happen to think that this sense of being connected is what we all crave as humans, whether it's within your family life, professional life, and among your friends... which is why people create communities.
So what is required in order to achieve that? Both to lead a community and be part of it, you have to SHOW UP. The real you. You know this already, Chris. Authenticity, willingness to engage... and blah, blah (as my 5 yo says!)
And no, I don't think it's always necessary. To extend your metaphor, I can go to a movie or attend a lecture and get what I want out of that experience... without hugging everyone around me and connecting with my fellow movie goers. That's okay too.
In my case, I created what I most needed and am most passionate about... which is a community of moms. And I've found that there are indeed like-minded others who also feel the need to CONNECT through our shared experience.
PDXsays
· 6 months ago
I'm not so sure about your leader-as-necessary concept, at least as you describe it, for Social Media- | Social Networking-based community. What seems to be missing is the obvious - this concept of chairs out | in is based on the POV of the observer. In this case always somebody looking to convert for intention - PR | marketing | et al
Jamie Favreau
· 6 months ago
I think there is a lot of lurkers in a lot of communities. One of the first ones I belonged to is Redwingsworld.com and this is a pay site which is basically a private message board. There are only a few active people but they are really strong.
I am working for FWIX and I have found it hard to get people to contribute. I am sure there are a ton of lurkers there as well. They stop by but they never join the discussion. I have been involved with message boards for awhile and have taken a liking to them. I think this is why I like message boards to chat rooms.
But I agree engagement is the key. I am still learning how to be engaging. I have worked for the LLS and when I was using their Twitter account I felt like it was a PUSH advertising and NOT pull. So I am working on fixing this as well.
I think when you can finally get the right combination it should work. But I have always been active in communities I am NOT so sure how to involve people who aren't nearly as engaged as I am.
Ed Irons
· 6 months ago
Chris: Wonderful distinction, very useful to my work in leadership development. Thanks!
Ed Irons TNM Coaching
LEADSExplorer
· 6 months ago
Maybe the chairs are pointing differently, but an audience comes and stays for the show and leaves afterwards. Similar for a community meeting: it has a start and an end.
A blog is a regular or almost continuous stream of information / content (the blog posts).
A blog is more like a TV talk show where the host performs every day (Oprah, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien, Dr Phil,...) with the big difference they can use their guests to make their talks interesting. A blogger needs to be interesting ,write interesting content all by himself everyday.
Additionally bloggers need to promote their content too.
I completely agree!. From my seat here in the education section, I'd say that a variation is that the difference between an audience and a group of learners is who's doing the talking.
Haven't visited your blog before -- am glad to have found it.
So the time has come to look into Frigidaire replacement parts. Is one of your Frigidaire appliances showing signs of wear and tear? No appliance can last forever. At some point, parts are going to wear out.
All Comments
You definitely are "spot on" with this post. Engagement and empowerment are key in building and sustaining a community. An audience is passive in nature, because they only watch and hear (perhaps some interaction but definitely not enough to call it a community). Through building an audience, consumers receive information, which HOPEFULLY stimulates positive brand perception and adoption. However, through the building of community, consumers are no longer just consumers - they are PEOPLE. People with similar passions, interests, problems, etc and they can share their experiences and begin dialogues which can benefit all parties involved - people make connections and are intrigued by the comments and conversations, brands can use what is said as a means to do a brand/product audit, etc.
To your point, people want to know that they are heard and that their opinions are valued. If they say something to you, they want to know it means something because they took the time and effort (as minimal as it may be) to do so. As we see many brands are utilizing twitter as a way to interact with their consumers. I think a great case in point is Virgin America and how they encourage consumers to share their thoughts and experiences (they respond to inquiries, retweet pictures that consumers post of their flight which other users can comment on - can also spark social network connections, etc).
In terms of building a community through social networking, I enjoy how Facebook enables anyone through Fan Pages to build a base and get some good dialogue going. In order to do so, the right questions have to be asked ... one should be prepared for both the positive and negative. In the case of the negative, one acknowledges it to show that you hear them and explore ways to improve and make that negative a positive. Provide incentives to your community (first looks at new products/improvements, exclusive discounts, etc) to keep the momentum going. A community takes a whole lot of work to sustain, but it's rewarding as you go along. Also, in order to sustain a community, I also believe it should be all about a brand/product at all times - brands should have fun with the community and also spark conversations from questions that all speak to their interests and lifestyle.
Also want to touch on what you said about the leader in a community -- the elusive part of the community leader in the social networking space though is that the leader(s) can change at any given moment and rather frequently. People decide to be more vocal in their posts and provide some genius insights which then can get them more attention and suddenly you're looking at a new top dog ... some people who may have been leaders sometimes just move on to something else (hey, it happens). So in building a community, there also needs to be a constant monitoring of activity to be aware of what is happening.
I plan on starting my own blog soon and I think you just inspired one of the first topics to address ... Thanks for a great read.
David Cid
Brand Strategist
Project 2050 (www.p2050.com)
twitter - @davidecid
Holy cats. I think you wrote your first blog post here! : ) What a great response. Thanks for all your thoughts. You've got a lot of value-add to what I started above, and that's the best way. Folks need to see that kind of good thinking that you've delivered.
Monitoring is definitely part of the game. I think I owe us a part 2.
You may give them a reason to consider hanging around. You can build the architecture and give them things to hold on to, but ultimately it's not something you can manifest. Communities gather around common interests or affinities, and not always specific to the the "thing" you want them to. I still hear companies struggle with the "we're going to create a community for our stupid dumb thing" and think that the mere desire to create a community will cause one to spring out of the ground. Then they wonder why no one wants to join their website about batteries or something.
Strong community leaders, in my view, are there as the experience architects. We need to let those in our *audience* guide us as to what might bring them together, even if it's not around our "thing". It's our job to translate, to interpret, to build bridges and give them chairs to sit in. But ultimately, the community builds and sustains itself, with us nurturing it along the way.
When I think of an audience I don't get the same feeling.
I know each has it's place, but when we're talking bloggin, media, marketing I think a community built around something will have a longer lasting impact.
Might be tougher to pull of though!!
http://twitter.com/franswaa
Do you think a community can last longer than an audience because an audience's natural progression is to a community? What happens to an audience between the leader's messages?
Bringing it back to the post, Chris, great chairs analogy, does ownership among the audience members turn the chairs around?
Dr. Phil has an audience, but when that show is done i don't think there will be a community formed becasue of it.
Oprah has an audience, but i also think she's build a community following that could go on for a long time.
(not that i watch these shows) :)
"How do you move from being ... just a customer into being part of a community? Is it always necessary?"
To have customers, not necessary. To have passionate users, community *is* necessary BUT... they don't usually need to be part of *your* community. For people who make products, it's often much better (and more likely/sustainable) if the user community is around whatever it is your product is a part of rather than a community ABOUT your product. A classic example is camera vs. photography. Better to have people engaged in community around photography rather than *your camera* (unless your camera is something truly unique).
More examples: Kitchen appliance community vs. cooking. Community around a specific brand of guitar vs. musicians. Community around LifeHacks/productivity vs. community around a particular brand of organizational tool.
But some software products, for example, are so powerful and unique that they, too, can have community. Final Cut Pro user groups independent of general digital filmmaking community. Java user groups vs. programming in general.
The only other point I want to make on your post was around this:
"Community happens when people feel they’re among like-minded others and when they feel their contributions matter." I'd modify that slightly... your description applies to people who *stay* in a community, but people often join one not to have their contributions matter, but to benefit from the contributions of the more experienced members.
This is especially true with user groups, where people often *join* because they NEED help. They have nothing to contribute and aren't focused on whether their own contributions matter. In many communities, one of the main goal's of the community "manager" or moderators is to get people to "graduate" from question askers to question answerers in the shortest possible time. Because the sooner participants DO feel that their contributions matter, the more likely they are to have a richer, deeper, more lasting experience as a member. And of course, SOMEONE has to keep helping the newbies ; )
Ahhh, I like your modification. So if a community empowers or enhances the experience, people will join because they can benefit. That fits more with Charlene Li's ladder.
I think people in most communities, even organic ones in the Twitter age, are looking for somem form of leadership. You can have a community with the chairs facing each other, but unless it is a very small group there still needs to be a Vaynerchuk or a Brogan to bring some balance and direction. I agree that this can be done without turning things into a monologue.
Anyway, great post!
You've really nailed it for me with the chair direction metaphor. Moving from audience to community should be a natural progression, but sometimes the chairs are stuck in the one spot and we have to get up and find somewhere else to sit.
thank you for sharing this,
::danny
For me, the difference between audience and community is all about who's in charge of the mike and who gets to decide what we're putting on stage.
Let me pit Here Comes Everybody against Tribes for a minute. There's a difference between audience-based communities and autonomous communities. If Ashton Kutcher dies tomorrow, so does his community. If Jimmy Wales dies tomorrow, Wikipedia will be fine.
So I think chairs aren't the critical thing. The critical thing is: are you building something that's bigger than you are? Will the show go on without you?
Great post! Fun to think about.
Wendy
@learningashland
"...which direction the chairs are pointing." That's what I have been thinking about, trying to articulate but been unable to say.
If I may be so bold to ask you a question, the blog I write gets very few comments but I get a lot of email. I think it is my writing style and I am not complaining. Maybe because some of it is about their career and not wanting to share it publicly.
Any suggestions short of asking them directly to post a comment? The conversation that would come about would be awesome to see. Folks could help each other.
I have a community that I see and interact with but they do not see each other.
Thanks.
Are you writing in general terms or about specifics? Sometimes that affects how people feel about responding. Another thought is to have them share their idea in a general sense as a guest post. Others would see that you're openly encouraging interaction.
a few ways to move customers from audience to engagement/community is for companies to become more human w/ quirks, likes, dislikes, the whole bit. being human means being empathetic, contributing to the communal team by adding value*, living by principles, and not being annoying (just to start).
people like to be noticed in the narcissistic social arena so personalization must move from just a few customer database silos to cross sectioning the cross sections of the database to customize content including incorporating communal input/ideas in a very visible way.
another change essential to moving from audience to community will have to be the speed at which corp amer reacts. a community can’t be built if people are left hanging while you're making up your mind/going thru red tape to get approval to respond. those of us who have been around since the dot com boom have fought this fight for over a decade but with social media, the need for speed and empowerment is imperative. Lagging behind & following others to the gate will not ingratiate brands to this generation.
*value does not mean what the company thinks people should find valuable, it's what customers tell you they want, either directly or through behavior. this is why you must be engaged in social platforms. behavioral trends will show up first in communities like twitter.
In fact, you've helped me rethink part of a proposal I'm doing.
As Lori points out, there are a plenty of times when people just want to buy a product without getting engaged. The question is, how many of your customers do you have to engage in community to have a positivve impact on your company? Are the people who do interact with that community also the connectors and trendsetters who influence other people?
Moreover, I think the mere existence of a community has a beneficial impact on non-participants. For example, I have taken advantage of information in client forums on company websites but have only participated actively with a small subset.
Your comment about "feeding the system" to keep either an audience or a community alive is spot-on. If your goal is to create a big audience, you have to keep the chairs turned towards you; you have to perform. If you intend to create a community, you have to lead out in bringing people together in a common cause and encourage them to spread the word and bring others into the community.
I appreciate the visual picture your post creates; thanks. -Michael
In higher education, there's an expectation of community. A college is an academic community. Students live on campus. They spend time with the product in the classroom. This expectation means that colleges have to show what kind of community they have during the recruitment process. It's one of the major reasons why students will spend or invest some much money for their education. But it also means that when the community doesn't function like it should, student-customers, parent-customers, etc. feel a sense of violation and loss. If you create community and market community, you have to make sure you stay true to your brand.
The shift certainly doesn't bother me (I learned of Thesis here and probably bought it through your link!), but it does illustrate that a community can also be an audience at the same time. If the community ties are strong enough, it can also become a sustained audience - like your Britney vs. the Dead comparison - and for a business, I would think that would be the goal.
It's a tricky balance to achieve, of course, and I think your post is a great way to focus folks' thinking. Because if they can't answer the question, their actions will probably have the same end result as re-arranging the direction of the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
You cannot manage the noise from group of Audience unless you control it which is not sustainable in the long term.
You're right - communities don't sell products but communities do spread recommendation and first hand reviews (through general chit chat or as a result of a direct question) and it is those recommendations and reviews that 'sell' products.
So I suppose the real question is if you are using communities to sell something, how are you going about building recommendations?
Jonathan.
P.S Chairs? Who has time to sit down at the moment?
It's all I got :)
Treat me like a person that you know loves your product but you don't necessarily take advantage of that, from a sales perspective. You take advantage of my passion, you take advantage of my wanting to connect with others that have similar passions, you take advantage of that commonality I have with thousands of others and provide a setting where we can get together and talk shop, around your industry and probably your product. Show me the voice and face of the community leader that's helping build this group of fanatics. And let me see that person, not so much as a leader, but as someone who has just as big a passion as I do, someone who sees me as more than a seat number in the audience.
That's how you engage me.
...but that's just me...
I also work for an association who is in the test phase of an online community. Slowly but surely we're getting participation; however, we're in the "what do we need to do to engage you?" phase. While I knew our members would not join right away and start using the tools we provided them, I didn't realize how difficult it would be for them to even respond to the invitiation. Perhaps we're not asking the right questions or offering the right reasons...
As you can see, this inspired me in many different ways. Cheers!
Glad you're engaged!
Onward!
There's really nothing wrong with this. For most businesses, developing an audience is actually more important than a community. As a blogger, however, I work to develop a community. I need the feedback and interaction for my blog to be worth my time. Not only do I want to share my knowledge and experience, but I also want to learn from others.
Just remember, whether an audience or a community is what you want, be sure that you're focusing on the right model for the right reasons.
This is a terrific post. I often use a similar metaphor to explain to clients their role in the social media space. The idea being that advertising is like being behind a podium at the front of the room and the tv network is the company that guarantees and audience sitting in chairs all lined up on a row. Only problem is those people may or may not care to pay attention. Social media is like having all those people in a room with no chairs and not podium and no microphone and you have to join the community, earn attention, bring something of interest and make friends. Your post obviously is more about creating a community rather than attempting to join one that already exists, but in either case the role of a brand, or marketer is the same: listen, participate, respect and always bring something of value that isn't necessarily what you want to bring, but what people would like to receive.
Glad to hear more people spreading that message. Thanks Chris!
At any rate, the previous comment that switching between the "community" and "audience" focus can change rapidly is well taken. I don't think that switching is what the gist of your post was about though - instead, its the overarching intent of the leadership entity - are you pushing out or circling and collaborating? Among salespeople, notoriously competitive, each salesperson may want to form their own community called a "sphere of influence" - however as the community is in its stages of formation, the "audience" intent is sometimes more evident than the "community" intent. Part of the reasoning is the differing ways the sale takes place - did someone get something that the other did not (a reduction in fees, perhaps, etc.). How often do consumers of a service get together with other consumers? The sea change for you, dear pirate, has been that you notice consumers do want to talk with each other, thereby creating their own community, at times outside of the leadership entity. This is done at times for solace in case of mistreatment, for accountability for the leadership entity to treat all fairly, and a host of other reasons.
Thanks for sharing what you know.
If you blog, all you get is an audience. Yes, there are those of us that add our comments, but we aren't working together to make something great. They are very useful, and you can learn a lot. There are a ton of great blogs out there (this on included) that I visit on a regular basis.
They both have their place, but I guess that I'm just partial to the wiki model.
Is conversation the only constant of a community versus audience experience? Is it that people talk or don't? Maybe that's the hinge.
When your students are your audience more of them end up having to stop, drop, and roll.
When your students and the teacher are part of a community, that is when learning starts to take place.
Luckily, my personality as a teacher led naturally to creating a community with my students. I make sure that they are part of the decisions being made, they help direct how our classes will work out, and, I think most importantly, my students and I take the time to get to know each other as actual people not just the roles we play as student and teacher.
As I write that I think that may be one of the keys to the difference between audience and commmunity. In an audience people only know the roles that each plays. In a community everyone has a deeper understanding of who each other are as people.
Jeremie
So in this case, yes, negative.
Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad you're here.
Many people are more interested in creating audience instead of community.
Personally I would prefer to have a good community with 500 people instead of an audience of 10.000. I believe having a community can only bring you good things to the future.
Even at work you have informal leaders who don't hold the title but wield some great power in moving the company, the products and the services. You could say that they're just part of the 'community' of employees but that's not true. They still have an audience who takes action based on their leadership, formal or informal.
To continue to the thought here, the fundamental difference between an audience and a community is that an audience will disperse when they've received the expected value and is no longer an audience. A community, however, is always a community as the value is not finite. Even if you are not engaged with other individuals, engaging in the practice (or product/service) indicates that you are in fact part of the community.
While the direction of the chairs is certainly important - the ability to sit in those chairs for long periods of time and take them with you when you go to other places where an audience gathers is certainly just as important.
Maybe we should sell ad space on those chairs...make them look like Nascars?
Great post, Chris... as usual.
Best,
Kevin Green
Director, Social Media Marketing
Digital Influence Group
www.twitter.com/kevinmgreen
So, I'm thinking this point "Communities don’t sell product. Communities empower users of products or services, or people with like-minded interests to interact." could be a strategy that someone starting a business would use as the innovation - in other words, find like-mined interests that want to engage and come up with a product or service that empowers it.
I ran across a company called OrbitBaby that was started by a couple Stanford design engineers who figured out how to innovate baby related products as an overall strategy and whether they planned is this way or not, have built a community around innovation rather than actual products.
Second, McDonalds is marketing. It *IS* marketing. Their burgers aren't better. Their operations and training are leaner/faster/easier-to-replicate than others, but what sells the product is marketing. They own it.
Innovative? Now that's a question, with regards to McD. At this point, I'd say they have muscle on their side.
However, look at this post by Amber Naslund about a dental spa. They win. Innovative.
You and I see eye to eye on this.
Sounds like our discussion/presentations at Soc Med Jungle back in Nov where our chat was one of the drivers in my decision to focus on the specific area of 'community driven marketing' :-)
I bought the domain www.communitydrivenmarketing.com in Pulver's office actually. ;-)
Anyway, well done. I really liked this one.
Being aware of the different perspectives that exist to whatever message you are putting out there, having the tenacity to seek out those opposing views, allows you to gear your performance to address those things.
There is a leap of faith involved with all of this, we trust the writers to be communicating in an honest way and we trust out listeners to consider, whether it's in a comment they leave or a conversation they have after the fact. It's odd how even though the word "social" gets bandied about, this process can in some moments feel very isolating. I think the key to moving forward is being able to ride out the different speeds that occur.
And, scene.
Also - I like the idea of community around concept vs. product - i.e.,photography vs. camera.
so ... audience or community ... broadcast vs conversation ... static vs dynamic ... there is a learning style, a behavioral difference that the concept of 'audience' promotes vs what 'community' promotes ...
i believe the days of simply broadcasting a message are closing up real quick, right? or, if you put something 'out there', it will most likely end up on some community-oriented site that gets commented on, repurposed, remixed, mashed up, etcetera ...
the much more powerful experience to set up and be involved in anticipates a more dynamic approach ... people interacting with | reacting with what you said | did | distributed ... and this dynamic approach is also, in the long run, so much more engaging for people, so much more powerful
I recently started using Twitter to meet other people with similar interests and without realizing it, was choosing to follow companies that understand this difference.
These companies add value to my network, and yes, although they are creating brand awareness and tweeting about products, their engagement in the community came first. Because of their involvement in my "community", I listen (as a community member) when they tweets about topics of interest and I listen when they tweet about a product (as an audience member).
There are very few that seem to be able to do this well, and I will definitely be passing this post along! Thanks again!!
Kristin
@geekgirls
You say: The only difference between an audience and a community is which direction the chairs are pointing.
I'd add another disctinction: an audience comes together to listen. A community comes together to converse. That's really why Barak was so successful, he engaged in conversation and two-way dialogue (both in person and online) and broke down the wall that traditionally seperates the stage from the populace. It's about engagement. But, of course, I'm preacher to the choir!
Chris Donaldson
That is brilliant!
> Think about the difference between The Grateful Dead and Britney Spears.
That may be something almost no one can judge ;-)
As a community/audience grows, you have both mixed together. By their own choice, it's a mixture. The 'seats' are all different directions, and they change directions, depending on the needs/interests of the individual.
I've been moderating a virtual community of dairy cow professionals for now 20 years. Yes, 20 years. We started using the old Bitnet and horrible terminal emulators for e-mail. As more people got access to the Internet, more people subscribed to our listserv, Dairy-L. Our community grew slow at first, but has now stabilized at between 1,700 and 2,000 for the last 10 years or so. Listserv is not as 'rich' of a communication media as this, but many of our community remain at the end of a long-tin copper wire and still do dial-up. Consequently, we stay with vanilla e-mail.
When I meet members of this 'virtual community' in f2f mode, I always ask them about why they are or are not active contributors. They tell me that they still want to get the e-mails because they learn from the exchange of others and they want to have this 'virtual community' as a potential resource for the future.
Giving people something that they want/need is the key. Let them put the 'chairs' in whatever direction they want, and don't be concerned about it. They'll put them in the order that's appropriate at that time.
Listening to the needs of the community/audience is also important, and I've found that it's useful to engage people in multiple modalities. Yes, some dairy farmers, veterinarians and advising professionals are now using social networking sites, but they're mostly just trying to see what's useful for them.
Hope that helps.
Bu then - that's what I do in f2f "communities" as well. It's just a personality thing - if what other people are saying is more interesting than anything I have to say, and I don't feel that there is anything important that I need to be add, I simply won't say anything at all. On twitter, as well, I tend to act as more of a conduit, passing along info that is already out there, but that I found interesting or valuable enough to share with others.
Great post, Chris, and great comments everyone!
-Ronit
Excellent post.
An unknown individual has instant access to millions, and millions have instant access to celebrities--in real time, even. Couldn't do that with Clark Gable, but Ashton Kutcher's right there.
Brands are (on their way?) out, people are in. And the chairs can be turned by all... all at once. And suddenly there's a no leader and a new 'owner' of the audience... or community.
-jef
Later Chris, great work... jef
www.deceptionsecrets.com
Time for a mid-year's resolution. Comment more and participate in the community!
Thank you, Chris...this is a very powerful post. I like to think that my chairs have gone from rows lined up facing the stage to a big, wide circle that makes it easy to reach out to each other.
Heather Allard
http://www.TheMogulMom.com
In response I say: I might go to Wiki to look up information about British Rock band Pink Floyd. I don't contribute per se, because I have no original knowledge, no value to add. On the other hand, the very author might read my blog on how to handle a specific home improvement. Different communities you say? Not really.. each is a sub-community of our larger community we call Humanity.
The trick then for a media company is to link all of these communities together.
I've been trying to put this in words since a while.
Especially when looking at using social media tools for local communities. Not gathered around a single interest from all over the world, but geographically connected i.E. living in the same city and the power of what those tools could do for the community! The real community!
No, I don't believe it is always necessary to be part of the community (as a consumer that is). But as a business, I do think companies need to be involved in communities that touch on either their products, brand in general, or communities that "meet" to discuss the needs or wants that can be fulfilled/addressed by your company's offerings.
In the market conversation there are three groups: Influencers who are the people/orgs who most commonly raise topics to discuss, Participants (kind of like the chairs facing into the discussion circle) who comment on, question and pass along the topics raised and the Listeners. Most consumers are just listeners. They look to the market conversation taking place in "communities" and other locations to help them determine how to fulfill their wants and needs.
For a business, the best way to engage in the communities is with a conversation marketing approach:
1) To become part of the discussion as a Participant
2) listen closely to the other Participants and Influencers
3) Provide quality insight into fulfilling the market's wants and needs, especially for the Listeners
4) Make yourself available to Influencers, Participants and even Listeners if they choose to come to you for information.
5) Work toward developing Influencer status by initiating topics about fulfilling wants and needs (not just about how your product can do it)
Thanks for the perspective.
Also, Chris, when you compared the audience engagement of the Grateful Dead to Britney Spears, which were you implying engaged its audience better? Because, if it was the Dead, clearly you were not sitting with a group of 11-year-old girls at the Britney concert. I was. Every little girl under the age of 14 in that arena was completely engaged and felt (and acted and continues to be) part Britney's community. For better or worse.
I also think it's important for companies to act more like an audience - listen more and talk less. But perhaps in that fashion they're creating a community by facilitating the conversation and acting as a nurturing leader interested in learning from those they serve.
I also think that communities will become more transient in the face of rapid change. With so many new shiny objects sprouting daily there's a lot of competition for community 'members'. It becomes harder to sustain interest in many cases. And we all can only participate meaningfully in a finite number. I read somewhere that one can only maintain 4 to 5 REALLY CLOSE friendships with less and less interaction as you move out from the central friend circle and the # grows.
As always cool, useful thoughts. Thanks!
Community can define an event but an audience can't define a community. When you look at some causes and brands, they have been able to create huge communities: Scion, (RED) movement, Habitat for Humanity to name a few. There is a die hard belonging as well as a desire to associate. Watch an absolutely great movie and afterward, does everyone share numbers and email addresses and get back together? Nope...at least not around here...
Some people even go as far as 'identifying' with brands that have become part of our social awareness: Coke, Nike, Kleenex, etc. Definitely strong brands that have created more than an audience...but they're not communities.
Chris, you've brought up some absolutely great points (again) and I'm compelled to see how this impacts other conversations I'm involved with since brand and community are so lacking in the industry I spend most of my time in. You've got a great community here...
Twitter @imacsweb
David Baeza
Twitter: davidbaeza
very thoughtful post. I try to be both. i feel i am caught in the middle, yet my passion and ambition far exceeds my talent. I fully understand business and technology, but somewhat new to the whole marketing game. but these worlds have now come together for me in the last 2 years. I first had to market my IT consulting business and while doing that stumbled upon a new start-up launch as you know. What i do know is that i consider you a great mentor and tell every single business person i am helping make sense of all this online marketing science i meet to follow you. Keep up the great work- Justin
Community = connection built around a bond built through a shared experience, or a large collection of shared interests and values.
Audience = connection built around identical place/time position, and singular shared experience.
RE: What do people need to do to engage you? How do you move from being part of the audience, or just a customer into being part of a community?
My suggestion: invite participation...at whatever level. More speciically: teach the community to do something cool, interesting, better than they can already do...using your product/service.
RGA still has one of the BEST examples, imho: http://www.rga.com/award/rockstar.html
(couldn't resist it, Chris. Get me a chair, would'ya?)
Being only an audience is ultimately selfish. Yes, time is short. Yes, we have much else to do. Those don't excuse you from never giving back anywhere. You don't have to give back everywhere but you really should give back somewhere.
i started out wanting an audience and found that a community is so much better
So what is required in order to achieve that? Both to lead a community and be part of it, you have to SHOW UP. The real you. You know this already, Chris. Authenticity, willingness to engage... and blah, blah (as my 5 yo says!)
And no, I don't think it's always necessary. To extend your metaphor, I can go to a movie or attend a lecture and get what I want out of that experience... without hugging everyone around me and connecting with my fellow movie goers. That's okay too.
In my case, I created what I most needed and am most passionate about... which is a community of moms. And I've found that there are indeed like-minded others who also feel the need to CONNECT through our shared experience.
I am working for FWIX and I have found it hard to get people to contribute. I am sure there are a ton of lurkers there as well. They stop by but they never join the discussion. I have been involved with message boards for awhile and have taken a liking to them. I think this is why I like message boards to chat rooms.
But I agree engagement is the key. I am still learning how to be engaging. I have worked for the LLS and when I was using their Twitter account I felt like it was a PUSH advertising and NOT pull. So I am working on fixing this as well.
I think when you can finally get the right combination it should work. But I have always been active in communities I am NOT so sure how to involve people who aren't nearly as engaged as I am.
Ed Irons
TNM Coaching
A blog is a regular or almost continuous stream of information / content (the blog posts).
A blog is more like a TV talk show where the host performs every day (Oprah, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien, Dr Phil,...) with the big difference they can use their guests to make their talks interesting.
A blogger needs to be interesting ,write interesting content all by himself everyday.
Additionally bloggers need to promote their content too.
I completely agree!. From my seat here in the education section, I'd say that a variation is that the difference between an audience and a group of learners is who's doing the talking.
Haven't visited your blog before -- am glad to have found it.
Ellen
aLearning
http://alearning.wordpress.com